(10:54:10) capitalist: tiny is charing 50 hours and being generous as shit
(10:54:15) capitalist: whole weekend shafted
(10:54:18) capitalist: everythign down still
(10:54:20) capitalist: bolean
(10:54:21) confused_obama_voting_pal: are they complaining?
(10:58:04) confused_obama_voting_pal: did u see the youtube vid
(11:49:04) confused_obama_voting_pal: tiny, get ready to jump into buying home for investment this coming winter.
(11:49:05) confused_obama_voting_pal: http://www.fieldcheckgroup.com/2009/07/19/7-19-mortgage-default-crisis-brutal-past-two-months/
(11:49:28) confused_obama_voting_pal: don't forget... capital gains is ZERO% when you sell a house if you profited (after having the house for 2 years)
(11:49:32) confused_obama_voting_pal: ZErO % capital gains!
(11:58:24) confused_obama_voting_pal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ_4Km90bkk&feature=player_embedded
(11:58:28) confused_obama_voting_pal: moral of the story: get into USD
(12:04:34) confused_obama_voting_pal: tiny needs to read up on "Elliot Wave theory"
(12:28:55) capitalist: SHIT
(12:28:59) capitalist: time to buy some house
(12:29:06) confused_obama_voting_pal: yup
(12:29:09) capitalist: I hear dobama takign that shit away unless prim rez
(12:29:20) confused_obama_voting_pal: prim rez?
(12:32:15) capitalist: primary
(12:32:19) capitalist: so anyone ivesting is fucked
(12:32:25) capitalist: essentailly raising taxes
(12:32:32) confused_obama_voting_pal: ohthat's definitely the case now
(12:32:38) capitalist: taxbama
(12:32:45) confused_obama_voting_pal: but that's been like that foryears
(12:32:47) confused_obama_voting_pal: prior to obama
(12:32:55) confused_obama_voting_pal: only 0% cap gains on house sell if primary res
(12:33:14) capitalist: I thought that was brand new.
(12:33:34) confused_obama_voting_pal: i could be wrong, but i'm like 80% sure it's been like that for awhile
(12:33:56) confused_obama_voting_pal: i think it's great that we dont' incentivize 'investors' of home buyers
(12:34:06) confused_obama_voting_pal: homes shouldn't be investment tools imo
(12:34:14) confused_obama_voting_pal: it keeps people who actually NEED HOMES out of a home
(12:34:21) confused_obama_voting_pal: due to massive speculation of "investors"
(12:34:42) capitalist: well
(12:34:49) capitalist: lcurretn taxes reflect that a fucker who has cash
(12:34:55) capitalist: can buy a house and get tax break
(12:35:00) capitalist: obama is taking away tax break
(12:35:02) capitalist: rasiin taxes
(12:35:08) capitalist: sneeaky
(12:35:18) capitalist: cap gains going up i heard
(12:35:21) capitalist: too
(12:35:31) capitalist: people dont get you arent guna get more outa governemtn
(12:35:40) capitalist: you just get less tax break if you own property
(12:35:46) confused_obama_voting_pal: good. cap gains SHOULD go up
(12:35:53) confused_obama_voting_pal: prevents amateur stock speculation
(12:36:02) capitalist: your a commy then
(12:36:05) confused_obama_voting_pal: i've been telling you about my theory on that for YEARS
(12:36:08) capitalist: I disagree philopohically
(12:36:15) capitalist: I already paid tax on money i invest
(12:36:18) capitalist: already did
(12:36:20) capitalist: now tax again?
(12:36:25) confused_obama_voting_pal: the point of INVESTING in stocks is mean tto be just that INVESTING. not speulation like trading baseball cards
(12:36:27) capitalist: i think cap gain should eb abolished
(12:36:29) capitalist: abolished
(12:36:37) confused_obama_voting_pal: ok tiny
(12:36:39) capitalist: investing is giving money to good biz to expand biz
(12:36:49) capitalist: save not consume 100%
(12:36:51) capitalist: liek homy
(12:36:58) confused_obama_voting_pal: i realize you are thinking about it emotionally from a "tiny" perspective
(12:37:02) capitalist: and to give that extra cash yes u get a gain
(12:37:02) confused_obama_voting_pal: meaning "how this is good for tiny"
(12:37:04) capitalist: for your risk
(12:37:10) confused_obama_voting_pal: but you have to look at the big picture. society's impact
(12:37:16) capitalist: thats called communism
(12:37:25) confused_obama_voting_pal: what good does baseball card-trdaing like behavior in stock trading do for society?
(12:37:26) confused_obama_voting_pal: nothing
(12:37:32) capitalist: society impact = tons of investing cash goes to biz who do well
(12:37:38) capitalist: those that suck people dotn invest in
(12:37:45) confused_obama_voting_pal: the idea was to create a vehcile so that people who are truly wanting to invest in a productive part of business can do so
(12:37:47) capitalist: winner, those who really make good product get cash to expand
(12:37:54) confused_obama_voting_pal: not to trade baseball cards in hopes that the gamble will pay off
(12:38:01) capitalist: market sorts all that out
(12:38:10) capitalist: only those who sell good product can stay in biz
(12:38:14) confused_obama_voting_pal: again, tiny needs to stop thinking emotionally
(12:38:20) confused_obama_voting_pal: and actually know facts before making debate
(12:38:40) confused_obama_voting_pal: that last thing you said is perfect example
(12:38:45) confused_obama_voting_pal: tiny knows very little about reality
(12:38:47) capitalist: now when you get goventment onvolved, liek berknaanke and fed giving loans to poor who cant amke a car payment, cuz cliton said too few poor minotiry have home, then youget real estate bubble
(12:38:51) capitalist: and bust
(12:38:59) capitalist: caused by government interfeareing in market
(12:39:00) confused_obama_voting_pal: due to stock bubbles, aig and companies that actually make NO product actually make out very big
(12:39:04) capitalist: eg fed/cliton fanny
(12:39:11) capitalist: no
(12:39:13) confused_obama_voting_pal: due to baseball card amateur traders
(12:39:16) confused_obama_voting_pal: like somoen ewe know
(12:39:18) capitalist: a company must ultimately produce or it goes out biz
(12:39:22) capitalist: unless bailout
(12:39:27) confused_obama_voting_pal: like aig?
(12:39:29) confused_obama_voting_pal: like bofa?
(12:39:32) capitalist: aig= massive governemtn
(12:39:40) capitalist: insurance=massive governmetn regualtion to stop competition
(12:39:47) confused_obama_voting_pal: ok tiny
(12:39:49) capitalist: aig=minitstry of governmetn
(12:39:54) capitalist: not a private competitive biz
(12:39:57) confused_obama_voting_pal: this is again one of these things yo'll come back years from now and rethink
(12:40:00) confused_obama_voting_pal: just like many other things i've told u
(12:40:01) capitalist: just like medical industry
(12:40:09) capitalist: hevy regulation to destroy competition
(12:40:17) capitalist: and fed+fractional reserve anking
(12:40:20) capitalist: not competitive biz
(12:40:22) capitalist: governemtn
(12:40:24) capitalist: gov
(12:40:32) capitalist: oh ive thought of this for decades
(12:40:40) capitalist: capitalism involves all these qustions
(12:40:46) capitalist: i debating this kinda stuff in 1993 with evil clint
(12:40:47) confused_obama_voting_pal: alright then, no point in arguing w/ on it. you've got your mind made out
(12:40:49) capitalist: 1993
(12:40:56) capitalist: remeber 1993?
(12:41:05) confused_obama_voting_pal: yes, that was when i grad high school
(12:41:07) confused_obama_voting_pal: what about it
(12:41:07) capitalist: well what are we arguing?
(12:41:16) capitalist: what should capital gains be?
(12:41:24) capitalist: I say 0
(12:41:26) confused_obama_voting_pal: dunno but certainly shouldn't be 0
(12:41:29) confused_obama_voting_pal: alright good then
(12:41:33) confused_obama_voting_pal: u never think of consequence
(12:41:34) capitalist: you already pay tax on paycheck
(12:41:36) confused_obama_voting_pal: same thing in IT world
(12:41:39) confused_obama_voting_pal: tiny never thinks of consequence
(12:41:45) confused_obama_voting_pal: only thinks about the black & white ideology
(12:41:46) capitalist: what is conswquence
(12:41:55) capitalist: more people saving and investing?
(12:41:56) confused_obama_voting_pal: that'st he question u need to ask yourself
(12:42:00) capitalist: good thing if ask me
(12:42:00) confused_obama_voting_pal: u always think there is NO consequence
(12:42:04) confused_obama_voting_pal: you rarely ever think anything through
(12:42:06) capitalist: market will sort it out
(12:42:09) capitalist: i dont need to worry
(12:42:14) confused_obama_voting_pal: you're right u don't
(12:42:14) capitalist: market is best sorter
(12:42:20) confused_obama_voting_pal: no way it'll be 0 perc
(12:42:30) capitalist: hong kong had 15% cap gain
(12:42:33) confused_obama_voting_pal: lemme ask u
(12:42:35) confused_obama_voting_pal: stop for sec lemme ask u
(12:42:40) capitalist: fastest economy growth in histry
(12:42:45) capitalist: and 15% flat tax
(12:42:47) confused_obama_voting_pal: u want to stop so i can ask?
(12:42:48) capitalist: no other taxes
(12:42:50) capitalist: okok
(12:43:24) confused_obama_voting_pal: what do u think happens to a society in which NOBODY will want to work for salary ? if 0% tax on baseball card trading, vs 40% for working salary.. why would anyone work?
(12:43:31) confused_obama_voting_pal: u can just trade baseball carsd all day
(12:43:45) capitalist: yeah but competition
(12:43:47) confused_obama_voting_pal: see.. tiny never thinks of consequence. just blabbers without thinking thru
(12:43:54) capitalist: for every winner there is a loser
(12:44:04) capitalist: and most people too risk averse to start own biz
(12:44:10) capitalist: so 80% work for living on salary
(12:44:14) capitalist: mostly
(12:44:26) capitalist: i dreem of USA where 40% salary
(12:44:28) confused_obama_voting_pal: so tiny's ideology is everyone should start own biz
(12:44:30) confused_obama_voting_pal: makes sense
(12:44:32) capitalist: in 1800s 10% salrry
(12:44:34) confused_obama_voting_pal: all chiefs no indians
(12:44:36) capitalist: and we grewe much faster
(12:46:34) capitalist: the market sorts out most bs
(12:46:40) capitalist: becaue no one will buy bs
(12:46:43) capitalist: if free not to
(12:46:52) confused_obama_voting_pal: right just like it sorted out aig
(12:46:53) confused_obama_voting_pal: and lehman
(12:46:55) confused_obama_voting_pal: and bear sterns
(12:47:02) confused_obama_voting_pal: and the 1000 banks that have failed thus far
(12:47:11) capitalist: lehamn etc were call caused by governmetn intvervention and regualtion of money
(12:47:11) confused_obama_voting_pal: and the 1000's of banks that will failed in 2 years
(12:47:13) confused_obama_voting_pal: riiiight
(12:47:16) capitalist: not true competitive businesses
(12:47:20) confused_obama_voting_pal: really? u sure?
(12:47:25) capitalist: pseudo governmetnal entities in a mesh of regualtion
(12:47:31) confused_obama_voting_pal: i think you are the only person on planet that thinks lehman was regulated
(12:47:33) capitalist: ooked into government
(12:47:42) capitalist: insurance/banks i have said for YEARS need reform
(12:47:44) confused_obama_voting_pal: it was actually the fact that it does CDS derivatives (UNREGULATED) that caused its demise
(12:47:49) capitalist: they are nothing close to free market
(12:47:50) confused_obama_voting_pal: again, tiny arguing w/ out knownig any facts
(12:48:14) confused_obama_voting_pal: dude, seriously. when u make args like that it's really nonsense to even debate with you
(12:48:30) confused_obama_voting_pal: it's very emotional and not productive at all when you just throw anything out there without knowing facts
(12:48:42) capitalist: so how did lehamn make money?
(12:48:46) confused_obama_voting_pal: u don't know?!
(12:48:48) confused_obama_voting_pal: CDS!
(12:48:55) confused_obama_voting_pal: DERIVATIVES!
(12:48:56) capitalist: what did thye sell
(12:48:57) capitalist: ok
(12:48:58) confused_obama_voting_pal: shadow banking my friend
(12:49:06) capitalist: and who made it ok legally to sell that?
(12:49:09) confused_obama_voting_pal: NOBODY
(12:49:12) confused_obama_voting_pal: that's the problem!
(12:49:13) capitalist: GOVERNMENT
(12:49:18) confused_obama_voting_pal: that's why govt could NOT bail them out.
(12:49:22) confused_obama_voting_pal: they were OUTSIDE realm of regulation
(12:49:30) capitalist: you gota register financial instruments with GOVERNEMNT right? need license to sell securities right?
(12:49:34) confused_obama_voting_pal: dude, seriously.. what are you arguing for?
(12:49:39) confused_obama_voting_pal: you have no idea what you're talking about
(12:49:40) confused_obama_voting_pal: at all
(12:49:45) confused_obama_voting_pal: omg, u are serious?!
(12:49:48) confused_obama_voting_pal: tiny... man
(12:49:50) confused_obama_voting_pal: i have nothing to say
(12:49:58) capitalist: so if they are not legal, not enforace by our governemtns legal system? how do they exist?
(12:50:03) confused_obama_voting_pal: dude
(12:50:08) confused_obama_voting_pal: i can't argue w/ u anymore
(12:50:11) capitalist: if not enforaceable, why doesnt some russian jsut take the gold and run?
(12:50:11) confused_obama_voting_pal: the best advice i can give you
(12:50:18) confused_obama_voting_pal: is just really.. learn some facts before discussing arlight?
(12:50:25) capitalist: im jsut tryign to figur eout where you comign from
(12:50:29) capitalist: its so foriegn to me
(12:50:30) confused_obama_voting_pal: it's like trying to talk to mechanic about lasers in the water stream
(12:50:38) confused_obama_voting_pal: and gerbils in carboretur
(12:50:39) capitalist: I dotn know what you are thinking
(12:50:42) confused_obama_voting_pal: u have no clue
(12:51:00) capitalist: lehamn if they sold something worth mopney msut have had a legal contract
(12:51:05) capitalist: isnt derivative a contract?
(12:51:08) capitalist: thats law
(12:51:11) capitalist: law is governemnt
(12:51:16) capitalist: law courts enforce contracts
(12:51:17) capitalist: right?
(12:51:22) confused_obama_voting_pal: nope
(12:51:26) confused_obama_voting_pal: u really should look it up tiny
(12:51:26) capitalist: so govermetn msut have document on what a derivative is right?
(12:51:36) confused_obama_voting_pal: don't ask me. if you don't know, u shouldn't be arguing
(12:51:39) confused_obama_voting_pal: just go look it up
(12:51:40) capitalist: otherwise someone say fuck you im not paying your derivative
(12:51:43) capitalist: ill keep your cash
(12:51:45) confused_obama_voting_pal: *sigh*
(12:51:51) capitalist: fundamentals JT
(12:51:55) capitalist: derivative CONTRACT
(12:52:01) confused_obama_voting_pal: ok tiny. there are gerbils in your engine
(12:52:02) capitalist: legal
(12:52:11) confused_obama_voting_pal: and lasers make sparkplugs ignite
(12:52:19) confused_obama_voting_pal: u know apparently how it works
(12:52:19) confused_obama_voting_pal: good
(12:52:41) capitalist: so no layers are involved in a derivative contract
(12:52:45) capitalist: lawyers
(12:52:51) capitalist: its scartched onto a napkin
(12:53:03) capitalist: IOU
(12:53:06) confused_obama_voting_pal: at this point, u have to ask yourself... is this an emotional response?
(12:53:11) confused_obama_voting_pal: seriously. stop and ask yourself that
(12:53:18) capitalist: Im just ocming at it from who can this work?
(12:53:31) capitalist: if soeon sells a financial product
(12:53:37) capitalist: it must have a legal writeup
(12:53:46) capitalist: enforceable by governmetn courts
(12:53:51) confused_obama_voting_pal: is legal writeup the same as regulated, tiny?
(12:53:54) capitalist: so how can government not know?
(12:54:08) confused_obama_voting_pal: if i sell you some protein from GNC , it's legitimate receipt.. yet is it regulated tiny?
(12:54:09) confused_obama_voting_pal: no it's not
(12:54:27) confused_obama_voting_pal: protein and other weight lifting enhance foods are not regulated.
(12:54:34) confused_obama_voting_pal: but according to you that's the same thing as "NOT LEGIT"
(12:54:40) capitalist: woa
(12:54:42) capitalist: not so fast
(12:54:42) confused_obama_voting_pal: you seriously need to stop thinking emotionally.
(12:54:49) capitalist: i would say this:
(12:54:55) capitalist: ok if mexamax is not regulated
(12:54:58) capitalist: and I eat it
(12:55:01) capitalist: and I get sick
(12:55:04) capitalist: can i sue mexamax?
(12:55:08) confused_obama_voting_pal: absolutely
(12:55:26) confused_obama_voting_pal: u can sue anyone for anything
(12:55:28) confused_obama_voting_pal: NEWSFLASH
(12:55:38) confused_obama_voting_pal: will u win? who knows
(12:56:31) confused_obama_voting_pal: are you sure you're not mixing the term "legal" the same as "regulated"?
(12:56:34) confused_obama_voting_pal: they're two totally different things
(12:56:37) confused_obama_voting_pal: u realize that right?
(12:57:34) capitalist: yes
(12:57:43) capitalist: but regulation usually takes shape as laws
(12:57:58) confused_obama_voting_pal: ok tiny i gotta get back to work
(12:58:01) confused_obama_voting_pal: this is really no productive at all
(12:58:15) capitalist: well
(12:58:27) capitalist: ok
(13:01:16) capitalist: just remeber because you voted for obama doesnt mean every commy idea that comes down the pike is correct, free market capitalism built USA and is the answer, and governmetn intervetion is at root of almost all the fuckups
(13:01:28) confused_obama_voting_pal: dude, i so did not vote for obama, it was RP
(13:01:34) confused_obama_voting_pal: last time i checked, RP is Repub
(13:02:09) confused_obama_voting_pal: anyhow, i think the diff is that i'm really not a fanatic. i can agree with both sides, depending if i agree w/ the topic or not
(13:02:29) confused_obama_voting_pal: you on other hand, are so fanatic and so emotional that you defy logic. and more importantly you argue without knowing any of the facts
(13:02:38) confused_obama_voting_pal: it's really frustrating to argue w/ someone like that
(13:02:43) capitalist: http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=21923&news_iv_ctrl=2403
(13:02:52) capitalist: I am anything but empotional
(13:02:55) capitalist: you keep sayign that
(13:03:00) capitalist: Im trying to get at ideas
(13:03:09) confused_obama_voting_pal: well the thing is that's great, but it's not an idea
(13:03:13) capitalist: I sincerel think obama is ruinign this country
(13:03:15) confused_obama_voting_pal: things that hve already happened aren't "ideas"
(13:03:28) capitalist: overspedning which mean raising tax burden sky high, and destroying the middle class
(13:03:29) confused_obama_voting_pal: knowing that lehman wasn't an UNREGULATED bank, isn't an IDEA!
(13:03:31) confused_obama_voting_pal: it's a KNOWN!
(13:03:44) confused_obama_voting_pal: it's like saying "i'm trying to grasp the idea that a dog is a mammal!"
(13:03:49) confused_obama_voting_pal: wtf! dog IS MAMMAL and that's just fact
(13:03:59) confused_obama_voting_pal: you can' t GRASp idea. u just either do or you are illogical
(13:04:16) confused_obama_voting_pal: and then trying to make arguments when you had no idea that dog was mammal , is so absurd that it's frustrating
(13:04:46) confused_obama_voting_pal: it's like u are sooo far behind the curve, how can anyone help!
(13:04:55) confused_obama_voting_pal: that's like saying "what recession?"
(13:05:14) confused_obama_voting_pal: remember what i told you before tiny.. you have to be ahead of the curve
(13:05:24) confused_obama_voting_pal: u don't want to be ON the curve or far worse BEHIND the curve
(13:05:33) confused_obama_voting_pal: right now, you are so behind the curve, it's almost hopeless
(13:05:57) confused_obama_voting_pal: anyway, gotta do work
(13:07:05) capitalist: its all in your mind im behind anything
(13:07:12) confused_obama_voting_pal: ok leave it at that
(13:07:13) confused_obama_voting_pal: i got work to do
(13:07:23) capitalist: but i think 90% cap gain a mistake
(13:07:27) capitalist: ;)
(13:07:41) capitalist: insurance and banks are scum
(13:07:51) capitalist: if one industry to destroy=insurance
(13:08:11) capitalist: and if governmetn was only bank maybe good but maby nazi germany
(13:08:13) capitalist: who knows
(13:10:53) capitalist: besides your work should all be reusible object by now
(13:10:56) capitalist: ;)
(13:11:26) capitalist: obama spedn when doesnt have tax income = new tax, interests enslaving the people
(13:11:34) capitalist: mccain would have done less damage