for 6B government could buy AMD

(01:25:41 AM) The topic for #tcl is: Tcl and Tk | for eggdrop try #eggtcl on efnet | NB: ijchain is a bot bridging a jabber chat
(01:29:35 AM) azathoth99: many times many ways mery xmas
(01:35:43 AM) Jygga left the room (quit: Nick collision from services.).
(01:35:44 AM) Jyggaa [n=Jygga@f053009135.adsl.alicedsl.de] entered the room.
(01:35:48 AM) Jyggaa is now known as Jygga
(01:35:52 AM) ***ijchain ashok has become available
(01:36:28 AM) hat0: christmas is a special time of year, a time when people from all religions, from all walks of life, can come together and worship jesus christ
(01:42:08 AM) ijchain: I prefer inclusive fascism
(01:44:38 AM) azathoth99: monarchy might be better after what I have seen under the obama regime
(01:45:14 AM) azathoth99: I mean why would monarchy be so bad?
(01:45:45 AM) ijchain: George II's was far worse
(01:45:56 AM) azathoth99: avatar gets A on yahoo movies, why do I no longer trust yahoo movies?
(01:46:03 AM) azathoth99: well how so?
(01:46:15 AM) azathoth99: obama has more war and more debt and more unemployemnt
(01:46:19 AM) azathoth99: I want george back!
(01:49:22 AM) ijchain: yeah, little things like iraq,afghanistan and the GFC. All of which occurred before Obama was elected.
(01:51:25 AM) azathoth99: gfc?
(01:51:57 AM) azathoth99: well obama could liek end the wars, bring troosp home, and buidl wind and soalr power
(01:52:03 AM) hat0: haha, azathoth99, not an obama fan?
(01:52:08 AM) azathoth99: hire unemployed and train em to be solar and wind engineers
(01:52:12 AM) azathoth99: hell no
(01:52:48 AM) hat0: are you sure you know what the "president" can do?
(01:52:55 AM) hat0: like, what his special magic elected powers are?
(01:53:12 AM) azathoth99: yep, one is called VETO
(01:53:59 AM) hat0: he will apply VETO to build wind and solar power, hire unemployed
(01:54:11 AM) azathoth99: thats the problem
(01:54:12 AM) ijchain: the other must be 'instantly reverse the consequences of previous criminal president.'
(01:54:19 AM) hat0: it seems you've thought this one out through and through
(01:54:28 AM) azathoth99: wind n solar would add energy to grid, and pay for self in few years
(01:54:48 AM) azathoth99: colin are you australian I forget?
(01:54:58 AM) ijchain: yep
(01:55:01 AM) azathoth99: oh I was an economics major
(01:55:08 AM) azathoth99: I think about this stuff too much
(01:55:20 AM) hat0: obviously
(01:55:33 AM) azathoth99: the housing nuke was cuased by governmetn funny money
(01:55:38 AM) azathoth99: as was the great depression
(01:55:44 AM) azathoth99: rest flows from those 2 facts
(01:55:45 AM) hat0: would you like to bring back the gold standard?
(01:55:47 AM) ijchain: didn't we have some agreement about your nick, azathoth99 ?
(01:55:49 AM) azathoth99: yes
(01:55:51 AM) azathoth99: I would
(01:55:52 AM) hat0: hahahaha
(01:55:57 AM) hat0: can someone op me?
(01:56:13 AM) azathoth99: what wan my nick
(01:56:21 AM) azathoth99: Im on new pc in moms house 3000 mile from home
(01:56:28 AM) azathoth99: running linux no less
(01:56:28 AM) hat0: gavino?
(01:56:43 AM) ***ijchain colin nods
(01:56:57 AM) azathoth99: bambino!
(01:58:19 AM) azathoth99: VETO bailout, veto war, veto health without single payer
(01:58:25 AM) azathoth99: veto tarp
(01:58:42 AM) azathoth99: end fed
(01:58:49 AM) karll_ left the room (quit: ).
(01:58:51 AM) azathoth99: basics
(01:59:04 AM) azathoth99: maybe gore shoulda run
(01:59:09 AM) azathoth99: gore might be more rational
(01:59:09 AM) hat0: "end fed" haha
(01:59:13 AM) hat0: i like how you kinda slipped that one in there
(01:59:24 AM) azathoth99: well any normal person would
(01:59:27 AM) hat0: wait, wait, the irs isn't constitutional, either
(01:59:30 AM) azathoth99: its source of legal crime
(01:59:33 AM) hat0: the 16th amendment was never properly ratified!!
(01:59:51 AM) azathoth99: well if you go that far neither is public eduction
(01:59:53 AM) hat0: wesley snipes is a political prisoner
(02:00:02 AM) azathoth99: or cap gains taxes
(02:00:05 AM) azathoth99: or death
(02:00:07 AM) azathoth99: etc.
(02:00:25 AM) hat0: man you guys are great
(02:06:39 AM) azathoth99: I dont understand other ideology
(02:07:13 AM) azathoth99: I had a friend who was a marxist professor, and old guy, and I didnt udnerstand how he would do things if e had the power
(02:09:13 AM) redblue [i=star@ppp034.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] entered the room.
(02:09:32 AM) hat0: maybe he wouldn't do a very good job
(02:10:00 AM) ijchain: gavino, we had an agreement wrt your nick.
(02:10:26 AM) ijchain: one part of the agreement was we wouldn't immediately ban you. The other part is that you wouldn't change your nick.
(02:10:51 AM) ijchain: Now, unless your mum's name is azathoth99, and you're using her account ...
(02:10:55 AM) You are now known as gavino
(02:11:00 AM) gavino: ok
(02:11:08 AM) ijchain: Ok.
(02:11:27 AM) gavino: 3 2 1 ..
(02:11:38 AM) ijchain: hmm?
(02:12:02 AM) gavino: amazing I am not banner
(02:12:05 AM) gavino: banned
(02:12:34 AM) ijchain: oh. Well, keep it within bounds and don't change your nick around, the rest can be handled by people hiding you if they wish.
(02:12:44 AM) gavino: hat0 what do you think is a good system of government, I can switch to talking about software if this is too offtop, butI find it interesting
(02:14:00 AM) gavino: colin compiments on wub
(02:14:09 AM) gavino: looks like it is growing strong
(02:14:15 AM) ijchain: Thanks. It's getting there.
(02:14:54 AM) hat0: gavino i'm a communist. in fact, if there were a level beyond communist, that's me. i'm a firm believer in a strong central government that tends to the needs of its people.
(02:15:20 AM) gavino: and entrepreneurs? those who say would work 3 times as much for 3x the $$?
(02:15:37 AM) ijchain: they would if I were in charge of the world!
(02:15:51 AM) hat0: i'd send them to the mines
(02:16:02 AM) ijchain: for 1/3rd the $$$
(02:16:15 AM) ijchain: I'd make them eat whatever they dug up
(02:16:23 AM) gavino: so what happens when no one does anything
(02:16:40 AM) hat0: yeah, "work 3 times as much" is some sort of unpleasant fiction - they work no harder than anyone, they just skim off the top of others' work.
(02:16:51 AM) gavino: everyone slacks, yet gov has to give each his supplies, yet none have been produced
(02:16:53 AM) gavino: ..
(02:16:56 AM) ijchain: expropriation as a career
(02:17:03 AM) hat0: but why would that happen, gavino? why would no one do anything?
(02:17:10 AM) ijchain: I'd still write code.
(02:17:19 AM) gavino: cuz rather play vid games
(02:17:31 AM) gavino: smoke weed
(02:17:33 AM) gavino: have sex
(02:17:36 AM) pkundu1 [n=pkundu@122.167.96.174] entered the room.
(02:17:38 AM) ijchain: I'd shoot slackers in my free time.
(02:17:43 AM) gavino: lol
(02:17:54 AM) gavino: I mean if governmetn provies why get outa bed in morning?
(02:18:07 AM) ijchain: I'd still get out of bed in the morning.
(02:18:17 AM) gavino: I too would get bored and go do something.
(02:18:31 AM) hat0: i'd get out of bed in the morning, too.
(02:18:41 AM) ijchain: right. and then we could shoot all the slackers.
(02:18:51 AM) gavino: how define one?
(02:18:54 AM) ijchain: actually, I'd rather shoot the people who go to bed early and get up early.
(02:18:56 AM) hat0: i really don't see why people would stop doing things, just because they're no longer terrified of starving to death.
(02:19:01 AM) gavino: what if someone thinks they should be paid for rap music
(02:19:19 AM) gavino: or poetry
(02:19:26 AM) hat0: why not?
(02:19:30 AM) hat0: the world needs art
(02:19:34 AM) ijchain: workers should own the means of production
(02:19:45 AM) gavino: ok say they do
(02:19:59 AM) gavino: what if they dont then dig with the shovel but go read poetry
(02:20:01 AM) ijchain: and also most of the productive capacity is mechanised.
(02:20:14 AM) ijchain: so how many people do you think actually swing a shovel these days?
(02:20:15 AM) gavino: and machines procued by giant organzied factories
(02:20:25 AM) gavino: produced
(02:20:26 AM) pkundu left the room (quit: Connection timed out).
(02:20:27 AM) ijchain: the factories should be owned by the workers
(02:21:00 AM) gavino: ok so governmetn nationalize say AMD
(02:21:09 AM) gavino: I mean with TARP funds probly could eh
(02:21:24 AM) gavino: then make chips nicer and distribute adn put intel outa biz
(02:21:29 AM) ijchain: ok.
(02:21:32 AM) gavino: odly appealing idea actually
(02:21:35 AM) gavino: ;)
(02:21:39 AM) hat0: so far so good
(02:21:57 AM) ijchain: except they should buy motorola and put AMD and Intel out of business.
(02:24:31 AM) gavino: motorola?
(02:24:38 AM) gavino: why is that a risc chip?
(02:24:59 AM) ijchain: anything but the x86
(02:26:10 AM) gavino: but can motorola make a chap chip for pc?
(02:26:22 AM) gavino: amd had qud core already does motorola have anything like that?
(02:26:32 AM) gavino: seems its doing phones mostly
(02:26:40 AM) gavino: amd only 6B
(02:26:41 AM) gavino: wow
(02:26:57 AM) gavino: government asked for 150B just last week
(02:27:10 AM) gavino: this week wants 50B for jobless claims, giving money to people not working lol
(02:27:13 AM) gavino: wow
(02:27:40 AM) gavino: why not x86
(02:27:49 AM) gavino: or amd64
(02:28:53 AM) gavino: motorola only 20B
(02:29:08 AM) gavino: so wow instead of tarp government coulda bought amd and motoral
(02:32:41 AM) gavino: housing is big scam
(02:32:57 AM) gavino: government could make nice complexes by zillion and employ lots of people to make them
(02:33:06 AM) gavino: if it said ok every person has an apartment free
(02:33:15 AM) gavino: 100% employment right there
(02:33:48 AM) hat0: yeah that sounds nice
(02:34:50 AM) ijchain: you really did study economics.
(02:35:06 AM) ijchain: I can tell, because you completely modify your conclusions depending on your audience.
(02:35:29 AM) gavino: I find Henry George and marx to be interesting.
(02:35:36 AM) gavino: keynes is a real moron
(02:35:50 AM) gavino: yet most of the big universities are keynesian
(02:35:59 AM) ijchain: orly
(02:36:06 AM) gavino: I guess I am an austrain schooler who is open to some debate.
(02:36:37 AM) ijchain: it's almost as if the past 30 years of voodoo economics and dominance by the chicago school never happened.
(02:36:40 AM) gavino: I think if you have governmetn intervention why not do practical things.
(02:36:57 AM) gavino: but supply side 'vodoo' economics, IS economics
(02:37:23 AM) gavino: keynes basically said forget everything, deficit spend, and I will make up some crap to say its economically good
(02:37:28 AM) gavino: like screw it
(02:37:37 AM) gavino: do oppposite of what all economists reccomend
(02:37:43 AM) gavino: spend more than take in
(02:37:57 AM) gavino: now someone thinking that can get a phd
(02:37:59 AM) gavino: amazing
(02:38:01 AM) ijchain: yeah, if they'd only been able to wait until the 1980s, the economic rationalists would have come along and ended the great depression
(02:38:06 AM) gavino: and be called an economist
(02:38:24 AM) gavino: 1980 were biiggest peactime economic expansion in 120 years in usa
(02:38:28 AM) gavino: the reagan miracle worked
(02:38:30 AM) gavino: well
(02:38:53 AM) ijchain: peace time economic expansion. How is that measured?
(02:38:54 AM) gavino: bill clinton in contrast was huge disaster, partially hidden by a internet stock bubble
(02:38:58 AM) gavino: in real growth
(02:39:05 AM) ijchain: of GDP?
(02:39:13 AM) gavino: higher wages, low inflation and real growth in production and buying power
(02:39:31 AM) gavino: GDP accounting for inflation
(02:39:55 AM) ijchain: so it's measured by GDP?
(02:40:36 AM) ijchain: If I buy a new car on credit, then crash it into a house, knock it off its foundations, and put myself in hospital, I've added to GDP, correct?
(02:41:20 AM) ijchain: first by borrowing, then by consuming, then by creating an opportunity for a builder, an ER crew, and all kinds of medical supply companies.
(02:41:51 AM) gavino: At the end of his administration, the Nation was enjoying its longest recorded period of peacetime prosperity without recession or depression.
(02:41:58 AM) ijchain: a single car crash can add maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars to GDP. Is that correct?
(02:41:59 AM) gavino: http://technoninja.blogspot.com/2008/11/ronald-reagan-was-awesome.html
(02:42:19 AM) gavino: not sure
(02:42:33 AM) gavino: gross domestic product counts everything produced in the state
(02:42:36 AM) ijchain: I think that the scenario I outlined is nett positive to GDP.
(02:42:41 AM) gavino: you didnt produce the car
(02:42:54 AM) gavino: economics is about production, not demand
(02:43:11 AM) gavino: unlimite wants, finite resources for production
(02:43:40 AM) ijchain: I didn't produce the car, true, but by wrecking it I haven't reduced GDP.
(02:43:49 AM) gavino: ya not counted
(02:43:55 AM) gavino: you goto work and produce something
(02:44:05 AM) gavino: you are given soem money by owner
(02:44:11 AM) gavino: you then trade for commodities
(02:44:13 AM) ijchain: GDP is increased by car crashes.
(02:44:16 AM) gavino: produced by others
(02:44:18 AM) gavino: nope
(02:44:20 AM) gavino: its not
(02:44:28 AM) gavino: crashes dont count atoll
(02:44:39 AM) ijchain: Every crash consumes services.
(02:44:48 AM) gavino: economics isnt consumption
(02:44:51 AM) gavino: its production
(02:44:57 AM) ijchain: those services, the production of them, contributes to GDP.
(02:45:04 AM) gavino: and decisions about what to produce in finite world
(02:45:14 AM) gavino: the car produced by say ford yes
(02:45:17 AM) gavino: counts to gdp
(02:45:28 AM) ijchain: services don't count to gdp?
(02:45:38 AM) gavino: the engineering servies, accounting services
(02:45:42 AM) gavino: ford uses
(02:45:46 AM) gavino: to produce ya
(02:45:49 AM) ijchain: medical services
(02:46:00 AM) gavino: well thats medical manufacturers
(02:46:01 AM) ijchain: so cancer contributes to GDP
(02:46:08 AM) gavino: no no
(02:46:13 AM) ijchain: sure
(02:46:14 AM) gavino: think of production
(02:46:32 AM) ijchain: I'm thinking of the production of services which are measured as contribution to GDP.
(02:47:02 AM) ijchain: GDP doesn't just measure hard goods
(02:47:07 AM) ijchain: or am I mistaken?
(02:47:22 AM) hat0: what _is_ production, if it isn't all these things colin is saying?
(02:47:38 AM) ijchain: oncologists' services contribute to GDP.
(02:48:10 AM) ijchain: My point is that GDP isn't much of a measure of wellbeing.
(02:48:24 AM) gavino: woa huge jump of logic
(02:48:28 AM) gavino: WOA nelly
(02:48:34 AM) ijchain: production of cigarettes, another contributor.
(02:48:34 AM) gavino: lol
(02:48:52 AM) ijchain: it's not true? oncologists don't contribute to GDP?
(02:49:21 AM) gavino: medical services to contribute of course
(02:49:36 AM) ijchain: How about ... I take a company, I carve it up and sell the bits for more than the whole was valued at. The companies cease to trade, after a time.
(02:49:41 AM) ijchain: That all contributes to GDP.
(02:49:50 AM) gavino: mmmmm so so
(02:49:51 AM) ijchain: as do the share traders' fees.
(02:50:09 AM) ijchain: How about ... I create an asset bubble in real estate ...
(02:50:17 AM) ijchain: I charge fees for the repackaging of debt.
(02:50:19 AM) gavino: whats wild is 70% of usa government spending is welfare
(02:50:28 AM) ijchain: I increase demand, thereby increasing 'value'
(02:50:34 AM) ijchain: The increased 'value' contributes to GDP.
(02:50:49 AM) ijchain: GDP isn't a good measure of wellbeing.
(02:51:19 AM) gavino: see when get into quasi governmetn financial sectors remember you cant blame market, cuz its all government setup, currency and its evil are governmetn, then coprorations ar eliek corrupted leeches, but please dont blame the marekt for those nukes
(02:51:44 AM) ijchain: Yeah, Enron was a government plot.
(02:51:46 AM) gavino: the housing problem was caused by government, not markets
(02:51:56 AM) gavino: energy regulation
(02:52:09 AM) gavino: or lack thereof
(02:52:17 AM) gavino: enrons biggest customer: governments
(02:52:31 AM) gavino: how enron get money? governemtn goons bought from it
(02:52:31 AM) ijchain: I think more regulation is in order.
(02:52:34 AM) gavino: not consumers
(02:52:37 AM) gavino: inside job
(02:52:50 AM) gavino: not jsut more but real and effective
(02:52:58 AM) ijchain: yep.
(02:53:03 AM) gavino: basic idea is consumer isnt na idiot he wont buy bullshit
(02:53:10 AM) gavino: he will say nah ill goto other competitor
(02:53:17 AM) ijchain: that's why pet rocks were never produced.
(02:53:23 AM) gavino: but governemtn can force zillion to buy a glass of liquid shit
(02:53:25 AM) gavino: en amsse
(02:53:34 AM) ijchain: it's also why Fox News went out of business.
(02:53:45 AM) gavino: fox makes zillions a year
(02:53:55 AM) gavino: orilly #1 show on cable 9 years
(02:54:03 AM) gavino: fox bought myspace
(02:54:10 AM) ijchain: it's also why Windows disappeared from PCs.
(02:54:20 AM) ijchain: because consumers won't buy shit.
(02:54:26 AM) ijchain: unless the government forces them to.
(02:54:27 AM) gavino: windows isnt shit
(02:54:37 AM) gavino: its great gui os for non tek guy
(02:54:47 AM) gavino: peple hand him 300$ for win7
(02:54:49 AM) gavino: no gun to thier head
(02:54:57 AM) gavino: people hand gates billions
(02:55:06 AM) ijchain: | basic idea is consumer isnt na idiot he wont buy bullshit
(02:55:13 AM) gavino: right
(02:55:15 AM) ijchain: basic idea is demonstrably false.
(02:55:22 AM) gavino: demonstrate please
(02:55:32 AM) ijchain: Windows, O'Reilly, Pet Rocks.
(02:55:43 AM) gavino: oreilly is awesome I watched him other night
(02:55:49 AM) gavino: windows is graet for my vidgame pc
(02:55:52 AM) ijchain: Yeah. Awesome.
(02:55:54 AM) gavino: and good for my mom
(02:55:59 AM) ijchain: Glenn Beck ... also awesome.
(02:56:02 AM) gavino: im telling you its a competitive winner
(02:56:06 AM) gavino: i watched beck today
(02:56:09 AM) gavino: it was great
(02:56:22 AM) gavino: 400B going to fannie may and fredd mac, 400B each
(02:56:28 AM) gavino: after they caused 2008
(02:56:30 AM) ijchain: bear with me a second, wrt beck
(02:56:32 AM) gavino: genius obama
(02:56:40 AM) gavino: beck show interesting
(02:56:46 AM) gavino: first time I watched it
(02:56:52 AM) gavino: pretty cool
(02:57:16 AM) gavino: sure
(02:57:21 AM) gavino: what about beck
(02:58:32 AM) ijchain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aEk864YrKw
(02:58:42 AM) gavino: on linux no 'tube
(02:58:44 AM) gavino: lol
(02:59:14 AM) gavino: in terms of ideas? did he say some crazy overly christian crap or something?
(02:59:16 AM) ijchain: 1:11
(02:59:22 AM) gavino: no youtube on linux!
(02:59:48 AM) gavino: reason Im not a republican is the religious gooniness
(03:01:15 AM) ***ijchain colin notes he's on linux, watching youtube
(03:01:45 AM) gavino: I didnt setup ALSA yet
(03:01:51 AM) gavino: so no sound
(03:02:06 AM) gavino: so what did beck say
(03:02:46 AM) ijchain: it was a homage to something and something and stuff
(03:04:50 AM) gavino: I wonder what someone would say if I blogged somewhere that for only 6B the us government could buy amd and make a government chip.
(03:05:02 AM) gavino: I mean thats nothing.
(03:05:51 AM) gavino: then government expands amd, hires zillions of unemplyed to be tekkies, and solves unemplyemnt while expanding a cool product
(03:06:17 AM) gavino: that to me would eb good side of central big gov types like obama
(03:06:20 AM) gavino: be-
(03:06:23 AM) ijchain: ok, and put Beck on the 3 dollar note. I have other stuff to do.
(03:06:47 AM) gavino: well i have no concept of what idea you were getting at
(03:06:47 AM) ***ijchain teo has left
(03:06:47 AM) ***ijchain teo has become available
(03:07:25 AM) ijchain: Beck is a loon. O'Reilly is also a loon. People watch this. It is shit. The government doesn't force them.
(03:08:22 AM) gavino: in your opinion
(03:08:28 AM) gavino: see you might not liek wine
(03:08:32 AM) gavino: while some love it
(03:08:47 AM) gavino: I think obama and jon stewart loons
(03:08:54 AM) ijchain: Beck is not wine. Beck is shit.
(03:08:54 AM) gavino: and ben bernanake a criminal
(03:08:59 AM) gavino: why
(03:09:08 AM) ijchain: watch the clip.
(03:09:09 AM) gavino: what crazy idea did he spew?
(03:09:24 AM) gavino: what is the core idea of what he said
(03:09:46 AM) ijchain: have you seen Network?
(03:10:02 AM) gavino: no
(03:10:21 AM) ijchain: ok. have you seen The Shining?
(03:10:25 AM) gavino: yep
(03:10:34 AM) gavino: but again I am waiting for the IDEA that is bad
(03:10:37 AM) gavino: what IDEA
(03:10:44 AM) ijchain: Right. What idea was the Jack Nicholson character espousing?
(03:11:29 AM) gavino: idea of that character? well he starts trying to provide for family with cushy cool job, then he goes bonker and wants to axe them
(03:11:42 AM) gavino: he goes mad
(03:12:08 AM) ijchain: Right. What idea was he espousing?
(03:12:13 AM) gavino: none
(03:12:20 AM) gavino: he goes mad
(03:12:23 AM) ijchain: Ok. Same with Beck.
(03:12:24 AM) gavino: no ideology
(03:12:28 AM) ijchain: Complete mentalist.
(03:13:14 AM) ijchain: Jack Nicholson but someone took away his axe and put him in front of a camera in a suit.
(03:13:24 AM) ijchain: babbling lunatic.
(03:13:35 AM) gavino: he seems to have a theme: small government, and deficit is bad
(03:13:50 AM) ijchain: yeah, and 'all work and no play makes jack a dull boy'
(03:13:53 AM) ijchain: that's a theme.
(03:14:27 AM) ijchain: mentalist
(03:15:37 AM) gavino: yet hes on tv making ton of $
(03:15:46 AM) chromebel [n=andrew@mm-168-182-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] entered the room.
(03:15:59 AM) gavino: and today had interesting show about obama and co iving 800B to freddy+fannie
(03:16:30 AM) ***ijchain de has left
(03:16:31 AM) ***ijchain de has become available
(03:16:35 AM) gavino: and a bit about how the tarp is 700B even if they already gave 100B away, tarp get reset, without anyone saying hey then its 800b
(03:16:37 AM) gavino: scary
(03:16:56 AM) gavino: like tarp could grow to 1300B
(03:17:04 AM) gavino: any they not admit it
(03:17:08 AM) gavino: scary
(03:17:18 AM) gavino: 12Trillion deficit
(03:17:32 AM) gavino: they just cant cap government spending
(03:17:40 AM) gavino: and pay off deficit
(03:18:44 AM) gavino: in australia how do they do things?
(03:18:55 AM) gavino: is health care free there?
(03:19:02 AM) ijchain: near enough
(03:19:05 AM) gavino: how bad are taxes?
(03:19:10 AM) ijchain: not very
(03:19:18 AM) gavino: how possible? how pay the doc?
(03:19:34 AM) gavino: do they have insurance middle men sucking out less blood?
(03:19:41 AM) gavino: less lawyers sucking blood?
(03:19:58 AM) ijchain: well, for one thing we regulate the sale price of pharmaceuticals
(03:20:34 AM) ijchain: the government negotiates for pharmaceuticals and requires a reasonable price and proof of efficacy
(03:20:44 AM) gavino: thats freakin awesome
(03:20:56 AM) ijchain: it works quite well.
(03:21:00 AM) gavino: I as a libertarian would vote for anyone who wants to do it
(03:21:06 AM) gavino: so its single payer?
(03:21:19 AM) ijchain: so well that the US government tried to get us to remove the scheme as a condition of the 'free trade agreement'
(03:21:26 AM) gavino: what the fuck
(03:21:36 AM) gavino: on what grounds?
(03:21:50 AM) ijchain: the grounds that US pharmaceutical companies don't like it.
(03:22:01 AM) gavino: wha tif a pharma company sells direct to public above the government price? illegal?
(03:22:18 AM) gavino: and says wont sell to autrailian governemnt
(03:22:21 AM) ijchain: You can buy direct, but you don't get the subsidised price. So it costs way more.
(03:22:24 AM) gavino: are there no private hospitals?
(03:22:30 AM) ijchain: If it won't sell, then it won't sell.
(03:22:41 AM) gavino: well say thre is wonder drug X
(03:22:45 AM) gavino: and everyone wants it
(03:22:52 AM) gavino: and pharam says no to governemtn
(03:22:54 AM) ijchain: then they can prove it, and justify the price, else no sale.
(03:22:57 AM) gavino: then sells at 100$ a pill
(03:23:03 AM) ijchain: it's never happened.
(03:23:11 AM) gavino: ah so its illegal for them to sell outside governemtn monopoly
(03:23:15 AM) gavino: ok
(03:23:20 AM) gavino: single payer style
(03:23:20 AM) ijchain: No, they can sell.
(03:23:38 AM) gavino: well if must prove then government has the final word
(03:23:46 AM) ijchain: but anyone who buys has to pay the full price, the price the pharmaceutical company asks.
(03:24:05 AM) gavino: hm
(03:24:16 AM) ijchain: it's called the PBS. Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme.
(03:24:27 AM) ijchain: You pay a nominated amount, a scheduled amount, for a drug.
(03:24:31 AM) gavino: how long have they ha dit?
(03:24:45 AM) ijchain: .gov.au ensures that the price is reasonable.
(03:24:53 AM) gavino: that is quite cool
(03:24:58 AM) ijchain: For 30 years, I guess.
(03:25:00 AM) gavino: I think pharma corps gouge people
(03:25:13 AM) ijchain: of course they do, if the government lets them.
(03:25:14 AM) gavino: so every citizen get health coverage?
(03:25:18 AM) ijchain: Yes.
(03:25:26 AM) ijchain: And of a reasonably high standard.
(03:25:28 AM) gavino: what about school is school free?
(03:25:28 AM) hat0: you live in a civilized place, colin
(03:25:33 AM) ijchain: Yes.
(03:25:39 AM) ijchain: in that regard, certainly.
(03:25:43 AM) gavino: including say getting an MBA?
(03:25:56 AM) ijchain: I look at the yanks, and I have no idea what you guys complain about.
(03:26:26 AM) gavino: where do you live hat
(03:26:27 AM) gavino: ?
(03:26:29 AM) ijchain: School is free, yes. Uni is reasonably cheap.
(03:26:41 AM) gavino: reasonibly?
(03:26:47 AM) hat0: gavino, did you read the recent economist article about how the mba is falling out of fashion?
(03:26:56 AM) gavino: I never read the economist
(03:27:01 AM) gavino: too euro commy for me
(03:27:08 AM) ijchain: there's a fee, it's on a fixed price no interest loan from the gov, which they take out as tax when/if your income reaches a given level.
(03:27:10 AM) hat0: too bad
(03:27:18 AM) gavino: wow
(03:27:33 AM) gavino: australia sounds like good place to get ahead
(03:27:36 AM) ijchain: it seems to work tolerably well.
(03:27:47 AM) gavino: do many people get MBA? or advnaced degree in comp sci
(03:27:47 AM) ijchain: it could be better, of course.
(03:27:48 AM) gavino: ?
(03:27:55 AM) ijchain: I've no idea of the figures.
(03:28:11 AM) gavino: do australian univerity come out with new proramming lanugaes or breakthroughs from time to time?
(03:28:21 AM) gavino: I think haskell was from univeristy of scotland or something?
(03:28:37 AM) gavino: what was the reasoning in the article hat?
(03:28:54 AM) ijchain: well, the CSIRO has a patent on wifi that's making 'em billions.
(03:28:58 AM) gavino: big companies seem to love to hire mba
(03:29:04 AM) ijchain: anyway, I have RL things to do now.
(03:29:13 AM) gavino: like?
(03:29:16 AM) gavino: play wow?
(03:29:17 AM) gavino: ;)
(03:29:32 AM) gavino: CSIRO? whats that