Are the fraud allegations from the article urging to Shut Down the Federal Reserve accurate? Why is there so little education about the Federal Reserv

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jun 2010, 14:51
Are the fraud allegations from the article urging to Shut Down the Federal Reserve accurate? Why is there so little education about the Federal Reserve in the media, schools and universities?

Why is the Government Accountability Office not allowed a full audit of the Federal Reserve? The position that something is very wrong with the Federal Reserve is even supported by some courageous Congressmen from both parties. If their accusations are unfounded, then why aren't the democratically elected Congressmen allowed to audit the Federal Reserve's alleged fraudulent activities and private ownership? The US Constitution in Article I, Section 8, Paragraph 5, states that Congress has the authority to "coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;".

Why is the Federal Reserve so secretive?


http://thomaspainereturns.net/posts/sdfr.html
"The band aids will not help the economic crisis. There is a systemic problem. The Federal Reserve and all the central banks in the world that are designed on its model are defrauding the people of the world.

There is no rational reason why the U.S. Congress cannot print its own currency. The Congress was intimidated, bribed and blackmailed into creating and maintaining the Federal Reserve Bank. The Federal Reserve was awarded a contract to manage the currency in America. The cost of that contract to the U.S. has been $10 trillion in national debt.

To try to cover for the Federal Reserve's greedy fraud, many countries are being forced to pay into the Federal Reserve coffers to keep the world economy afloat. One of the ways they are being forced to pay is through devaluation of their currencies with respect to the U.S. dollar, which is a way of building up America at the expense of others in the world.

All of the band-aid measures will fail. The problem is the Federal Reserve, which concept is founded upon debt-based currency and fraud. It must be closed down or it will continue to suck the resources of the U.S. with its currency management contract. The American government could do the Federal Reserve's job for virtually nothing, and save the U.S. taxpayers between $200 and $900 billion each year in interest off a debt that will never be paid off."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_McFadden
"McFadden is also remembered for his criticism of the Federal Reserve, which he claimed was created and operated by European banking interests who conspired to economically control the United States. On June 10, 1932, McFadden made a 25-minute speech before the House of Representatives[2] , in which he accused the Federal Reserve of deliberately causing the Great Depression."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huey_Long
"Long was a staunch opponent of the Federal Reserve Bank. Together with a group of Congressmen and Senators, Long believed the Federal Reserve's policies to be the true cause of the Great Depression. Long made speeches denouncing the large banking houses of Morgan and Rockefeller centered in New York which owned stock in the Federal Reserve System. He believed that they controlled the monetary system to their own benefit, instead of the general public's benefit."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand_Paul
"Paul opposes the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the Federal Reserve's control of the nations money supply and interest rates. He wants to allow the free market to regulate interest rates, and supports congresses constitutional role of controlling the money supply. Paul endorses H.R. 1207, the Federal Reserve Transparency Act, a bill introduced by Congressman Ron Paul mandating an audit of the Federal Reserve. Although Paul would abolish the Federal Reserve, he supports transparency and accountability of the semi-private institution. Additionally, Paul opposes inflation and supports "restoring the value of the dollar that has devalued by approximately 95% since the Federal Reserve's inception in 1913"."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Grayson
"Grayson is a co-sponsor of the Federal Reserve Transparency Act of 2009, which would provide addition provisions to audit the Federal Reserve, including removing several key exemptions."
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PostPosted: Sat 26 Jun 2010, 14:51
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PostPosted: Sun 27 Jun 2010, 01:48
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Why is there so little education about the Federal Reserve in the media, schools and universities?


Is this a serious question? I wonder where schools get there money? I wonder where universities get their money? I wonder where the news gets their exciting (lol) stories?

I didn't read your article, I apologize, but I consider myself a serious scholar of economics and do not draw conclusions simply from non-wikipedia internet links (unless it is mises dot org of course).

Let me give you all a brief breakdown on money. Money is the most commonly chosen commodity by the market. Of neccessity money arises NOT through social contract or fiat but through market transactions. It is useful to imagine Robinson Cruesoe for a moment, with another man, say Friday. Of course money is an extremely valuable invention and has a myriad of uses with which we are all familiar. It is unfortunate that the history of monetary theory is, for the most part, the history of monetary crankism, because it seems inevitable that people imagine the solution to all our problems is printing more money. Of course this doesn't help and does hurt.

The real problem is everyone wants money, and people are willing to be evil to get it. All we need to do, all everyone needs to do, is simply disavow evil. Simply accept that it is immoral to steal, no matter who you are or what name you give yourself, or how many people tell you what is okay. Get a fucking job.
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PostPosted: Mon 28 Jun 2010, 21:38
Quote:
I consider myself a serious scholar of economics and do not draw conclusions simply from non-wikipedia internet links


I'm sorry but I don't think conclusions should even be readily drawn from wikipedia unless you've checked the discussion and sources thoroughly. Not meaning to immediately step off topic, but I don't intend to have a debate about this either. I've heard the charge that the Federal Reserve was responsible for the Great Depression, but I really don't know enough on the topic to speak on it.
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun 2010, 08:39
grassroots1 wrote:
I've heard the charge that the Federal Reserve was responsible for the Great Depression, but I really don't know enough on the topic to speak on it.


I believe Milton Friedman was one of the biggest proponents of this view. I've also heard that Britain's return to the gold standard helped spur the Depression. I'm not terribly familiar with the Keynesian critique of it so somebody help me out here, but monetarists pointed to a substantial decrease in the money supply as an exacerbation of the problem.

Our current Fed Chairman, Ben Bernanke apparently agrees with this and has also pointed to over-indebtedness and deflation. He's a pretty solid expert on the Depression as well.

I'm a fan of the Austrian School so I'd be remiss in my support of them if I didn't mention that they believe that the monetary expansionist policies of the ''roaring 20's'' allowed a bubble to form in the market that was unsustainable.

It's a fascinating study to be honest and if anyone has any sources about the Depression they'd like to share, I'd love to read some more about it.
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun 2010, 08:43
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Are the fraud allegations from the article urging to Shut Down the Federal Reserve accurate? Why is there so little education about the Federal Reserve in the media, schools and universities?
Because an uneducated people are easier to dominate.
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun 2010, 11:05
Quote:
Are the fraud allegations from the article urging to Shut Down the Federal Reserve accurate?

No.

Quote:
Why is there so little education about the Federal Reserve in the media, schools and universities?

Clearly you weren't educated on what the Federal Reserve is and isn't, hence your post.

Quote:
Why is the Government Accountability Office not allowed a full audit of the Federal Reserve?

It is. The Federal Banking Agency Audit Act was passed in 1978 and gives the GAO the ability to audit the Fed. In the 40 years since the law has been passed, the GAO has audited the Fed more than 100 times. In addition, each individual member bank has been audited by countless other private accounting offices such as Price-Waterhouse and Coopers-Lybrand.

The rest is just quoting the same old conspiracy theories. Blah blah Rockafeller. Blah blah Rothschild. You need better sources.
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun 2010, 11:15
The key to long term economic growth is savings. While the media and the modern economist sycophants pimp the idea that consumption is the creation of wealth this is absurd and ass backwards. We can consume because we create. Production is the synthesis of capital and labour. You can increase the labour supply by having babies OR allowing immigrants to join your nation, and you can increase the supply of capital by increasing investment in capital. Investment cannot occur without savings, unless you simply create the money from thin air, which is a form of robbery and creates a strong disincentive against saving.

Every Federal Reserve Chairmen states that their primary purpose is to fight inflation. This is a lie. Inflation is a product of the money supply increasing. As the supply of money increases, assuming the demand to hold money stays the same, the price of money (it's purchasing power) decreases. Thus, as the money supply increases, the prices of goods in terms of money increase. The Federal Reserve increases the money supply by purchasing government bonds.

The Federal Reserve serves the interests of the power elites at the expense of the average citizenry. It is a giant scam, a hoax, perhaps the greatest scheme the world has ever known. This is the story of every central bank.
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PostPosted: Tue 13 Jul 2010, 13:23
CatoLives wrote:
Every Federal Reserve Chairmen states that their primary purpose is to fight inflation. This is a lie. Inflation is a product of the money supply increasing. As the supply of money increases, assuming the demand to hold money stays the same, the price of money (it's purchasing power) decreases. Thus, as the money supply increases, the prices of goods in terms of money increase. The Federal Reserve increases the money supply by purchasing government bonds.

The Federal Reserve serves the interests of the power elites at the expense of the average citizenry. It is a giant scam, a hoax, perhaps the greatest scheme the world has ever known. This is the story of every central bank.


By and large, I agree with this. Given that, how do you suggest we manage fiat money?
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PostPosted: Wed 14 Jul 2010, 04:48
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You guys can't be serious and the linked sites are only laughable...
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PostPosted: Wed 14 Jul 2010, 07:16
killim wrote:
You guys can't be serious and the linked sites are only laughable...


Ah the standard reply from the intellectually bankrupt Keynesians.... Dont you have any arguments other than ''lol your stupid''?
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PostPosted: Wed 14 Jul 2010, 11:43
Just to mention it: I am an ordo liberal, since i don't know when.

My criticism here is primarily based on the fact that the arguments presented here aren't based on neither an economical model nor empirical data. Instead it is ideologically based and partially in sharp contrast to the reality.
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PostPosted: Thu 15 Jul 2010, 10:42
Quote:
By and large, I agree with this. Given that, how do you suggest we manage fiat money?


I am against fiat money because I believe it is inherently unstable but if you are to have it the key is to keep the money supply exactly even. Just don't print money.
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PostPosted: Sat 17 Jul 2010, 13:49
CatoLives wrote:
I am against fiat money because I believe it is inherently unstable but if you are to have it the key is to keep the money supply exactly even. Just don't print money.



The key to practical interstellar travel is a faster than light speed drive. Keeping the money supply exactly even strikes me as about as easy. However, I know little about economics, perhaps you could explain to me how this can be done?

As for printing money, I hope you are speaking metaphorically because that isn’t how the money supply is expanded. Perhaps you could be a little more specific on the basis for the metaphor?
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PostPosted: Sat 17 Jul 2010, 18:54
DubiousDan wrote:
The key to practical interstellar travel is a faster than light speed drive. Keeping the money supply exactly even strikes me as about as easy. However, I know little about economics, perhaps you could explain to me how this can be done?


Well for the US economy you just print up x amount of money, enough to work as a circulation currency, meaning you need a certain amount of coins and pieces of paper to physically work as money, the amount of money doesnt really matter, theoretically the whole US economy could function on 100$, you would just have to invent money units smaller than cents.

That is what a gold standard does, it fixes the amount of money to the amount of gold in existance in the world today, politicians cant create gold out of thin air so they have to be honest about how much they tax people, they cant hiddenly tax people by printing money. The inflation tax also disproportionally taxes poor people since its usually the wealthy people that get the newly printed money first and at that point they still retain their purchasing power, when this new money reaches poor people the overall price levels will have risen to reflect the increased amount of money in circulation.

Money is just a medium of exchange, its not wealth, wealth comes from production, without production it doesnt matter how many paper notes a country has, it wont be wealthy.
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Jul 2010, 06:09
The money supply is expanded as a result of government bonds being purchased by the federal reserve, but the metaphor of the printing press is an accurate description of what occurs. It is not a tricky thing to keep the money supply stable, and this has been accomplished by many people's in the past. In the 20th century I believe the swiss franc was for periods very stable, for example. Of course there is a strong tendancy towards debasement, and it occurs frequently and today it seems practically ubiquitious. One of the strongest forces towards the debasement of a currency is war.
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PostPosted: Thu 22 Jul 2010, 10:55
CatoLives wrote:
The money supply is expanded as a result of government bonds being purchased by the federal reserve, but the metaphor of the printing press is an accurate description of what occurs. It is not a tricky thing to keep the money supply stable, and this has been accomplished by many people's in the past. In the 20th century I believe the swiss franc was for periods very stable, for example. Of course there is a strong tendancy towards debasement, and it occurs frequently and today it seems practically ubiquitious. One of the strongest forces towards the debasement of a currency is war.


Remember, we aren’t discussing currency, we are discussing fiat money, or at least I was. Go back and check those periods of stable currency and see if they were based on fiat money. Yes, after Bretton Woods there were some stable fiat currencies out there, but they were based on the American dollar which wasn’t fiat money. Until Nixon, that is.

In China, because of a shortage of silver, they invented fiat money somewhere around the 10th Century. They invented paper and developed block printing, so it was easy for them. However, it never really worked. The people used it when they were forced to, but used silver when they could. When the Europeans showed up with silver coins, the Chinese fell in love with them.

As for the Swiss Franc, when I was in Europe in 1954, if memory serves me correctly and it rarely does, the Swiss Franc was four to the dollar. At the moment, it takes a dollar and change to get a Franc. It’s a successful fiat currency, at least so far. However, the Swiss can do things that nobody else can do. The are that extreme anomaly amongst Humanity, a competent people.

You are absolutely correct on the war issue. During war, monetary discipline becomes secondary, and that’s usually when states reach out for fiat money and debase it to the max.

That might explain why Switzerland had stable fiat money.
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PostPosted: Thu 22 Jul 2010, 11:20
So, you support a metallic standard?
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul 2010, 12:23
Fasces wrote:
So, you support a metallic standard?


Only as a least bad choice. From a historical standpoint, fiat money has a very bad record. Bimetallism has problems, it lacks flexibility. However, it imposes discipline. Fiat money depends on the self discipline of politicians. Seen much of that lately?
During most of human history, money has been metallic. The excursions from that have usually led to suffering. With precious metal backed paper or noble metal coins, it’s a little difficult to get to hyperinflation. With paper, it’s very, very easy.
I would like to get rid of the Federal Reserve, but as long as you have fiat money, I don’t see how that is possible. That’s part of the function of the Federal Reserve, to manage fiat money. After all, it says right on the damn stuff “Federal Reserve Note”, and it is printed under the jurisdiction of the Federal Reserve.

We need a better basis for money than metal, but at the moment, I don’t see it. Everything else leads to easy manipulation. Sure, with that mythical entity, a competent government, fiat money might work.
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul 2010, 12:38
Any basis for a currency designed around a non-infinite supply will lead to explosive, exponential deflation, and make large economies of scale impossible. The transition to a fiat currency was not to better the manipulation of money, but to make continued economic growth possible.
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul 2010, 16:30
Fasces wrote:
Any basis for a currency designed around a non-infinite supply will lead to explosive, exponential deflation, and make large economies of scale impossible. The transition to a fiat currency was not to better the manipulation of money, but to make continued economic growth possible.


This doesn’t seem to square with history. The British Empire was developed with a metallic standard. So was the American . The post World War II development of the American economy was America’s golden age. It was after we left the gold standard under Nixon that America’s decline versus the rest of the World began. The inflation under Carter, then the borrow and spend under Reagan was a response to fiat money.
As for the motives to go to fiat money, it has usually been for manipulation. Johnson went off the silver standard to hide the real cost of the Vietnam War. Nixon went off the gold standard to shift the effects of devaluation from the commercial oligarchy to the working class. The countries that left the Gold standard during World War I did so in order to manipulate currencies. The United States went to fiat money during the Revolution and the Civil War for the same reason.
Yes, fiat money has made the economic games from Reagan on possible, but these were not based on real economic growth, but smoke and mirror games which culminated in 2008 but didn’t end there. Fiat money is what gives the Federal Reserve the ability to play the absurd games which are gutting the American economy.
You have only to compare the current values of the metals which where once the basis of our currency to see what has actually happened to the value of the dollar. The government statistics on inflation and cost of living are a lie. The poverty statistics are set to a standard that is over forty years old when household expenses were in an entirely different structure. The government refuses to update the formula because it would reflect that poverty has nearly doubled.
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“As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.” A. Einstein.
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