lumbercartel rocks computers threads security name based virtual hosts

(7:43:38 PM) The topic for #openbsd is: ChannelFAQ: http://tinyurl.com/y9xx2rr | LATEST PATCH: 4.6#4 4.5#10 | Who's going to FOSDEM? Han; Visual`
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(8:09:20 PM) lordsporkton: im reading here in the softraid man page ofr 4.6 that for raid 4 and 5 there is "no automated mechanism to recover from failed disks" however im having trouble understanding the entire meaning of that, if i lose a disk it will still function but I would not be able to just swap in a new disk and have everything rebuild? also what about a reboot? if a drive fails and i reboot will it limp along and still provide my data or will the
(8:10:25 PM) shemale-magic: bugger if I know
(8:12:45 PM) lordsporkton: ahh i think man raid is answering me
(8:12:46 PM) levity [~levity@unaffiliated/canuck] entered the room.
(8:14:37 PM) shemale-magic: yeah man and info are legendary on openbsd
(8:15:07 PM) shemale-magic: I am having trouble connecting x on openbsd desktop to centos 5.4 xen server
(8:15:28 PM) shemale-magic: I want to use the virt-manager gui
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(8:22:59 PM) You are now known as BLAM_exclpt
(8:26:43 PM) levity: BLAM_exclpt: : ForwardX11Trusted
(8:27:20 PM) BLAM_exclpt: is the a parameter ?
(8:27:25 PM) BLAM_exclpt: does ssh -Y do that?
(8:28:10 PM) levity: read the section of ssh_config(5) called ForwardX11Trusted
(8:28:28 PM) BLAM_exclpt: ok ading to blog
(8:29:18 PM) BLAM_exclpt: thank you!
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(8:45:05 PM) BLAM_exclpt: opebsd seems quite fast on my 3.0 p4 with 3200m ram
(8:45:12 PM) sektorNBA is now known as sektornba
(8:45:23 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I should have 4096 but I think there is something wrong wiher with one of the sticks or the motherboard
(8:46:57 PM) BLAM_exclpt: http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=ssh_config holy crap this one option could be the key
(8:47:03 PM) BLAM_exclpt: levity you rock
(8:48:30 PM) levity: i personally would never contemplate enabling this feature ***SECURITY RISK***
(8:55:21 PM) BLAM_exclpt: well what about if it the difference btwixt having them bring in vmware or use xen?
(8:55:38 PM) ***LumberCartel really likes Xen.
(8:55:41 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I personally should really learn xen command line
(8:55:53 PM) LumberCartel: It's really easy.
(8:56:11 PM) LumberCartel: Just type "xm help" and spend an hour, then you'll know it.
(8:56:32 PM) BLAM_exclpt: hey lumber, where do I find the example for creating xen vm with redaht 4.6 at url i provide with the real DHCP ip ? the one that gets a real ip from local subnet dhcp?
(8:56:35 PM) BLAM_exclpt: ok
(8:56:44 PM) BLAM_exclpt: then I can say bleh to gui
(8:57:17 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I have already cloned vm
(8:57:20 PM) BLAM_exclpt: :)
(8:57:25 PM) LumberCartel: I don't know about RedHat, but I can't imagine it being very much different from using NetBSD. I did write a document one day that guides users through installing Xen on NetBSD: http://www.lumbercartel.ca/library/xen/
(8:57:39 PM) LumberCartel: It will run Widows XP Pro with SP3 in HVM.
(8:58:07 PM) BLAM_exclpt: really?
(8:58:08 PM) LumberCartel: I'm currently using this configuration in 7 different production environments, and it actually makes Windows run faster.
(8:58:20 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I can curently only coax centos to laod centos and redaht os
(8:58:29 PM) BLAM_exclpt: any other barfs when I start setup
(8:58:31 PM) BLAM_exclpt: :(
(8:58:46 PM) LumberCartel: 5 of those environments are used to run a Windows XP designed application that provides database backend to web sites. The developer is only comfortable in Windows, so it's done to accomodate him.
(8:58:47 PM) BLAM_exclpt: xp paravirtualize?
(8:58:57 PM) LumberCartel: Yup.
(8:59:01 PM) LumberCartel: NetBSD supports it.
(8:59:03 PM) BLAM_exclpt: and windows db on real box?
(8:59:20 PM) BLAM_exclpt: or windows app to unix db box? over odbc?
(8:59:31 PM) LumberCartel: NetBSD is the Dom0, and Widows XP is the DomU (on my systems I give XP 4 GBs of RAM, and it can use 3.75 GBs).
(9:00:21 PM) LumberCartel: In these cases, Windows is where the DB is, but Samba is used on Unix to provide network drive letters in Windows XP so that files can be stored on the server without consuming as much processing power on the Windows side (not that it's an issue, but I'm an optimization nut).
(9:00:21 PM) BLAM_exclpt: how many cpu / ram on dom0?
(9:01:01 PM) BLAM_exclpt: oh hell yeah I already want to use lvm2 to provide partitions on a linux FTP server and then mount space i need on any vm
(9:01:15 PM) LumberCartel: On most of these systems, Dom0 gets 2 GBs (it doesn't need even 1 GBs though) to run NetBSD 5.0.1 (the current version), and 1 CPU. The DomU gets WinXP with 4 GBs of RAM and 3 CPUs. Windows correctly detects 3 CPUs.
(9:01:20 PM) BLAM_exclpt: or if lazy let em all sahr e1 big NFS share
(9:01:31 PM) LumberCartel: Heheh.
(9:01:31 PM) LumberCartel: Yup.
(9:01:35 PM) BLAM_exclpt: [sub FTP for NFS in first bit]
(9:02:13 PM) BLAM_exclpt: ok so instead of 1 huge box you do many dom0, giving msot power to guest
(9:02:22 PM) BLAM_exclpt: cool
(9:02:45 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I had some trouble with netbsd packaging while back
(9:02:55 PM) LumberCartel: No, can only have on Dom0 -- that's your host. The "guests" are all DomU.
(9:02:55 PM) BLAM_exclpt: do you run netbsd desktop with firrefox?
(9:03:14 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I meant like 8 physical box, each a xen dom0, each with 1 xp guest?
(9:03:36 PM) LumberCartel: You don't need any GUI stuff to make Xen work. My document explains how to set it up with the minimum this way too. You also won't need GRUB because NetBSD 5 has a proper boot loader.
(9:04:01 PM) LumberCartel: Yes.
(9:04:06 PM) LumberCartel: Because each is a separate client.
(9:04:17 PM) LumberCartel: I've run more than a dozen DomUs running XP though, and it was fine.
(9:04:29 PM) LumberCartel: Slower, indeed, due to limited CPU resources, but it worked.
(9:04:31 PM) LumberCartel: No crashing.
(9:05:18 PM) BLAM_exclpt: dozen on 1 xen dom0?
(9:05:30 PM) invictus [jaird@64.215.163.99] entered the room.
(9:05:33 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I am curious what happens when have more vm cpu than real
(9:05:34 PM) LumberCartel: One box, one Dom0, more than a dozen DomUs (each running XP).
(9:05:43 PM) BLAM_exclpt: do ones that are busy simply use real cpu rest are silent?
(9:05:59 PM) mischief: i didnt know xen supported netbsd..
(9:06:03 PM) LumberCartel: CPU cycles are split between guests.
(9:06:08 PM) BLAM_exclpt: In the virt-manager gui I could choose 32 cpu lol
(9:06:11 PM) LumberCartel: Xen and NetBSD support each other very well.
(9:06:28 PM) BLAM_exclpt: xen on centos 5.4 I can't get to load anything but centos and redhat
(9:06:45 PM) LumberCartel: Well, I think that Xen on NetBSD is really worth looking at.
(9:06:54 PM) BLAM_exclpt: the CD images I mount blow up when star tto isntall guest saying " cant find any loadable OS "
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(9:07:19 PM) BLAM_exclpt: it is raelly up to date like xen 3.4?
(9:07:23 PM) LumberCartel: Yes.
(9:07:43 PM) LumberCartel: Hang on, I'll check what I've got on one of the production systems I'm supporting...
(9:08:00 PM) jsoft: Oooooh
(9:08:08 PM) jsoft: I ate wayyyy to much at dinner
(9:08:14 PM) jsoft: Am beached whale now
(9:08:27 PM) BLAM_exclpt: lol
(9:08:31 PM) LumberCartel: I have 3.3.2 on one of the more recent setups, but I'd be suprised if 3.4 isn't in pkgsrc by now.
(9:08:36 PM) BLAM_exclpt: wow
(9:08:42 PM) BLAM_exclpt: way mroe recent that centos
(9:08:44 PM) LumberCartel: jsoft: Avoid the Japanese -- they'll hunt you for sport!
(9:08:45 PM) BLAM_exclpt: 3.0
(9:08:50 PM) BLAM_exclpt: with centos 5.4
(9:09:22 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I wonder fi you offered a prisoner in jail his freedom if he would join reality show to hunt human live game liek runnign man etc?
(9:09:45 PM) BLAM_exclpt: damn it lumber now Im goign to try netbsd again
(9:09:50 PM) LumberCartel: Depends on the prisoner, I suppose.
(9:10:02 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I got so pissed last time I tride it since I felt liek a dum dum couldnt get pkgadd to add firefox
(9:10:09 PM) LumberCartel: And other factors, like if he's to be released next month he might just deicde to wait it out instead.
(9:10:17 PM) BLAM_exclpt: well yeah
(9:10:20 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I mean lifers
(9:10:38 PM) BLAM_exclpt: liek this: if you get away, then you get away
(9:10:40 PM) BLAM_exclpt: no manhunt
(9:10:51 PM) LumberCartel: Lifers? Oh I think most would go for it.
(9:10:57 PM) LumberCartel: Especially those who are suicidal.
(9:11:16 PM) LumberCartel: Okay, it seems that Xen is still at 3.3 on NetBSD (see xentools33): http://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/pkgsrc/current/pkgsrc/sysutils/
(9:11:51 PM) BLAM_exclpt: what if company said: ok here is inetnet connection: learn perl, and build X, adn we will sponsor you getting better fodo in prison etc.
(9:11:56 PM) BLAM_exclpt: food
(9:12:06 PM) BLAM_exclpt: prisoner able to work way to better things
(9:12:08 PM) LumberCartel: Ha ha, learn perl.
(9:12:12 PM) BLAM_exclpt: or lisp
(9:12:18 PM) LumberCartel: Make that "Learn mod_perl2" and then you'll really have a challenge for them!
(9:12:20 PM) BLAM_exclpt: haskell whatever
(9:12:21 PM) ***LumberCartel loves mod_perl2.
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(9:12:33 PM) BLAM_exclpt: learn catalyst and deliver X website
(9:12:36 PM) LumberCartel: Perl is my favourite programming language.
(9:12:39 PM) BLAM_exclpt: cmon
(9:12:43 PM) LumberCartel: Seriously.
(9:12:43 PM) BLAM_exclpt: good ole perl?
(9:12:45 PM) LumberCartel: I like it.
(9:12:46 PM) LumberCartel: Yup.
(9:12:49 PM) LumberCartel: I use it extensively.
(9:12:51 PM) BLAM_exclpt: the new site perl.org is all snazzy
(9:13:18 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I am such a puss I havent learned ti but have not made headway in haskell common lisp smalltalk or forth either, sigh
(9:13:51 PM) LumberCartel: I build web sites with mod_perl2 on Unix. The latest was http://www.openrfc.org/ and there are others.
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(9:15:03 PM) LumberCartel: Perl gets even better when ModPerl is in the picture, and not just for performance, but also for back-end database handle and query caching at the web server level, tight integration into Apache HTTPd, etc.
(9:15:33 PM) BLAM_exclpt: nice site
(9:15:39 PM) LumberCartel: Thanks! You like the humour links?
(9:15:45 PM) BLAM_exclpt: ever run load tests?
(9:15:48 PM) LumberCartel: http://www.openrfc.org/humour.pl
(9:15:50 PM) BLAM_exclpt: of course! cornier the better!
(9:16:02 PM) LumberCartel: I did a few times in the past, and it had no problems.
(9:16:45 PM) LumberCartel: After I moved from perl to mod_perl2, my CPU utilization, during peak times, dropped from ~10% to ~1%. When one of my clients got slash-dotted years ago, the CPU utilization jumped up to a whopping 3%.
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(9:19:25 PM) BLAM_exclpt: what!!!!!!!!
(9:19:28 PM) BLAM_exclpt: 3%
(9:19:31 PM) BLAM_exclpt: cmon
(9:19:38 PM) BLAM_exclpt: break.com needs to hire you
(9:19:40 PM) LumberCartel: My systems are QuadCore Xeon processors.
(9:19:43 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I had load avg 120
(9:19:48 PM) LumberCartel: As I mentioned, I'm an optimization nut.
(9:19:54 PM) LumberCartel: I use PostgreSQL for the database.
(9:19:58 PM) BLAM_exclpt: on I think dual core xeon 4 or 8 gm ram
(9:20:13 PM) BLAM_exclpt: postgresql I have always wanted to try
(9:20:18 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I heard it kicks ASS
(9:20:23 PM) LumberCartel: I also do stuff with Apache HTTPd 2 like using threads and whatnot because they're actually better.
(9:20:28 PM) LumberCartel: It does.
(9:20:30 PM) LumberCartel: It rivals Oracle.
(9:20:31 PM) BLAM_exclpt: do you have any web setup writeups simialr to the xen stuff?
(9:20:37 PM) LumberCartel: No.
(9:20:41 PM) LumberCartel: I haven't gotten to that yet.
(9:20:51 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I tried to convince at&T hosted to use the worker MPM
(9:20:54 PM) LumberCartel: I'm currently working on a write-up about how to set up NetBSD as a corporate internal LAN server.
(9:21:02 PM) BLAM_exclpt: they guy said no the prefork is jsut as fast etc.
(9:21:23 PM) LumberCartel: It is, but the tear-down and construction of pre-forks is expensive.
(9:21:28 PM) LumberCartel: Threads are very light.
(9:21:33 PM) BLAM_exclpt: do you have any trouble with the netbsd packaging system/ftp stuff
(9:21:45 PM) BLAM_exclpt: yeah and webservers=ram hogs
(9:22:08 PM) BLAM_exclpt: apache site says ram is very important esp to avoid swapping right?
(9:22:16 PM) BLAM_exclpt: thats why apaceh2 is THREADED
(9:22:29 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I investigated a bit of aolserver too and cherokee and compiled hiawatha
(9:22:39 PM) BLAM_exclpt: never got to load tests tho
(9:22:46 PM) BLAM_exclpt: neve rgot postgresql going
(9:22:51 PM) mischief: where the hell do you find articles on the net about setting up shared hosting?
(9:22:53 PM) LumberCartel: Most people don't understand threads, and so they blame threads for their own shortcomings. I used to program multi-threaded services on NetWare in Assembler a long time ago. Here's a threadpool I created in Java: http://www.internationalnetwork.com/java/docs.beta/com/internationalnetwork/lang/DynamicThreadPool.html
(9:23:06 PM) BLAM_exclpt: woa
(9:23:40 PM) BLAM_exclpt: assembler?
(9:23:42 PM) LumberCartel: mischief: It doesn't matter. You really need to teach yourself how to do this. I read the RFCs for HTTP, DNS, FTP, etc., and then Apache HTTPd was so easy to learn.
(9:23:48 PM) jsoft: mischief: shared hosting?
(9:23:55 PM) jsoft: mischief: Ive done that before
(9:23:58 PM) BLAM_exclpt: name based virtual hosts
(9:24:10 PM) BLAM_exclpt: [loser I read 0 RFC]
(9:24:11 PM) jsoft: mischief: what stuff do you need to run?
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(9:24:57 PM) jsoft: RFC's???
(9:24:58 PM) LumberCartel: Start with this RFC, seriously, then you can TRULY understand the ramifications of any security settings you configure in your web server software: http://rfc2068.openrfc.org/
(9:25:02 PM) jsoft: Rubbish
(9:25:12 PM) jsoft: Three years later...
(9:25:40 PM) LumberCartel: Well, do you want to be really REALLY good at what you do? Then this cure-for-insomnia (reading RFCs) is important.
(9:25:52 PM) jsoft: *yawn*
(9:26:01 PM) LumberCartel: It doesn't take that long to read. Heck, I read most of these when I was using an elliptical trainer at the local gym. Killed two birds with one stone that way.
(9:26:30 PM) jsoft: Sounds pretty ghastly to me.
(9:26:32 PM) LumberCartel: But you'll also need to read up on virtual hosts, and you'll definitely need to understand Unix security (OpenBSD is probably the very best place to start when you have an eye on security).
(9:26:40 PM) LumberCartel: It's not that bad.
(9:26:47 PM) jsoft: Sure it is.
(9:26:57 PM) LumberCartel: Then you're not cut out for it.
(9:27:04 PM) jsoft: There is no real point studying RFC's unless you need to write software
(9:27:13 PM) jsoft: Cut out for _WHAT_ ?
(9:28:12 PM) LumberCartel: BLAM_exclpt: I started with Commodore 64 BASIC, then found that very limiting by grade 6 and started learning 6502 ASM. After that I moved on to 8088 ASM on the XT, and eventually 80386 ASM on a newer PC. I also figured out LDTs, IDTs, GDTs, and made a simple multi-tasking kernel that updated different parts of text video memory at the same time (multiple tasks).
(9:28:44 PM) BLAM_exclpt: http://www.internationalnetwork.com/java/docs.beta/com/internationalnetwork/lang/DynamicThreadPool.html lumbercartel is this like a thread library for java?
(9:28:55 PM) mischief: jsoft, im saying if i wanted to start a company doing shared hosting
(9:28:59 PM) LumberCartel: jsoft: For setting up web hosting. If you aren't truly interested in learning how it works behind-the-scenes, then it could turn out to be a very frustrating challenge.
(9:29:25 PM) LumberCartel: BLAM_exclpt: Yes. Java, by the way, doesn't support re-runnable threads, but I made it work using 100% native Java code (no JNI).
(9:29:26 PM) mischief: you need to be able to properly configure each service involved and configure it according to being a shared host service
(9:29:31 PM) jsoft: LumberCartel: Oh wait, so one has to read RFC's to qualify as interested now?
(9:29:44 PM) LumberCartel: jsoft: Nope, but reading the RFCs will give you a major advantage.
(9:29:56 PM) BLAM_exclpt: holy shit my company needs to hire lumbercartel
(9:30:05 PM) LumberCartel: jsoft: You don't have to read all 5,000+ RFCs, just a couple that relate to the protocols you're supporting.
(9:30:30 PM) LumberCartel: BLAM_exclpt: I'm writing an SMTP/POP3/IMAP4 server in Java right now. It's 80% finished for the SMTP/POP3 part.
(9:30:46 PM) mischief: LumberCartel, well, i know a fair share for my age. :3
(9:30:53 PM) mischief: but there's still so much to learn...
(9:30:56 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I think knowing the RFC lets a programmer solve the problem without building on 40 other things
(9:31:05 PM) BLAM_exclpt: LumberCartel: link?
(9:31:06 PM) BLAM_exclpt: ;)
(9:31:08 PM) LumberCartel: BLAM_exclpt: It also uses configuration file format that is exactly the same as Apache's HTTPd's httpd.conf format.
(9:31:09 PM) jsoft: Yeah well, personally, I dont think you should be trying to do shared osting mischief
(9:31:22 PM) LumberCartel: BLAM_exclpt: Not yet. I have to get the domain name for it, but I want to finish the project first.
(9:31:33 PM) mischief: jsoft, whys that?
(9:31:37 PM) BLAM_exclpt: mischief: from 1 ip, you can server 1000 sites with name based vrtual hosts
(9:31:49 PM) LumberCartel: BLAM_exclpt: You know what my biggest beef is about open source projects? The complete and utter lack of comments in the code.
(9:31:58 PM) BLAM_exclpt: now keeping misceants from one anothers files HA!
(9:32:11 PM) LumberCartel: mischief: There's more than one way to learn things, but the RFCs lay all the cards on the table (usually) and are a great place to start.
(9:32:17 PM) BLAM_exclpt: really? yeah, I bet there is much code duplication
(9:32:40 PM) jsoft: mischief: well, despite disagreeing on LumberCartel's RFC comments, Thinking that you can just read a how-to on shared hosting is a major giveaway that you dont really understand enough yet
(9:32:41 PM) LumberCartel: BLAM_exclpt: I'm sure one could make that judgement after figuring out the mystery of what all that code does without its comments. Heheh.
(9:32:55 PM) jsoft: Or have had too little experience
(9:34:00 PM) LumberCartel: BLAM_exclpt: These are my Java classes for handling the httpd.conf-style configuration files: http://www.internationalnetwork.com/java/docs.beta/com/internationalnetwork/util/conf/package-summary.html
(9:34:35 PM) ***jsoft shudders at java :)
(9:34:45 PM) LumberCartel: BLAM_exclpt: The "ConfigurationResource" and "Rule" classes there include some source code.
(9:34:49 PM) LumberCartel: ...examples.
9:36:38 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I read a guy who made his own forth environment called iforth, and he said reable source is more important than code even running.
(9:37:15 PM) LumberCartel: BLAM_exclpt: I know someone who did that too -- his name is Roedy Green, and he called the environment "Abundance." His web site is: http://www.mindprod.com/
(9:37:58 PM) LumberCartel: I had the pleasure to work for him many years ago. He's a genius, the type MENSA would like to have as an honorary member.
(9:38:19 PM) LumberCartel: jsoft: Do you program Perl at all?
(9:39:09 PM) mischief: jsoft, i think you mis-understand, what im saying is i can never find anything on shared hosting when i go to look
(9:39:57 PM) BLAM_exclpt: they are keeping it secret so you dont compete with them!
(9:40:04 PM) BLAM_exclpt: genius!
(9:40:21 PM) BLAM_exclpt: this from a guy who does his own java thread libs and writes threaded apps on netware?
(9:40:27 PM) BLAM_exclpt: maybe I jsut suck really bad
(9:41:37 PM) BLAM_exclpt: I can figure many things out, but I tend to pick apart things instead of fulyl reading on each subject.
(9:41:46 PM) LumberCartel: I learned a lot from Roedy Green. I also learned a lot from other places too. His social skills aren't his strong point, but when it comes to solving technical problems he's got a knack for just seeing the solution as if it should be obvious to everyone. He usually doesn't have to think long and hard like a lot of folks.
(9:42:00 PM) mischief: o_O
(9:42:22 PM) LumberCartel: You don't suck (unless you're into that, but women might be off-topic here), this is just normal for most people.
(9:42:44 PM) BLAM_exclpt: whos this mr green?
(9:43:15 PM) LumberCartel: Mr. Roedy Green. http://www.mindprod.com/
(9:43:44 PM) BLAM_exclpt: ah ok thats him
(9:43:50 PM) BLAM_exclpt: oow the buttons
(9:44:47 PM) jsoft: Man its hot and humid here. That, coupled with my rather full belly, makes it hard for me to concentrate
(9:44:48 PM) jsoft: :(
(9:45:01 PM) LumberCartel: You know how it is -- the quality-content-heavy sites usually lack in the flashy/polished look department.