Now, we all love our teachers. But the fact is that teachers unions – and the contracts they negotiate with the politicians they elect – are greedy, cash-sucking vampires.

Teachers Unions Opt for Plastic Sugery on Taxpayers’ Dime by Ben Shapiro The health plan for teachers union members in Buffalo, NY apparently includes liposuction and nose jobs – and we pay for all of it. As CNN reports: The sweet deal that all the 3,400 teachers in Buffalo are eligible to get under one of their insurance plan options, they are billed nothing for any plastic surgery procedure, such as botox, liposuction, tummy tucks, and there is no deductible …. Last year, Buffalo’s schools spent $5.9 million on plastic surgery which is also known as a cosmetic rider. And Buffalo teachers have had this rider for nearly four decades …. Now you might think Buffalo’s school district must be flush with cash to be offering perks like free plastic surgery, right? Wrong. Louis Petrucci, the president of the Buffalo Board of Education says he is projecting a $42 million deficit in next year’s school budget. Now, we all love our teachers. But the fact is that teachers unions – and the contracts they negotiate with the politicians they elect – are greedy, cash-sucking vampires. That’s why the teachers unions in Los Angeles decided that it would be better to let the Los Angeles Unified School District fire 5,000 teachers than it would be to allow their benefits to be cut. Now, whom does that benefit? It benefits the teachers who stay employed, obviously – but it doesn’t help the ones who get fired, and it certainly doesn’t benefit children, whom we have been told require more and better teachers, not fewer, older, and worse. LAUSD spends an almost unbelievable $30,000 per child – and has some of the worst educated children in the nation. That’s no coincidence. That’s the teachers unions. Most of all, it benefits the union bosses, who get to charge higher dues so long as they exact higher benefits from the state. Then they use those dues to help elect their friends, whom they press to hand over more taxpayer dollars. It’s a beautiful system. The only losers are us and our children.

Rasmussen Poll: Walker Likely to Survive Recall Wednesday, 29 Feb 2012 12:15 PM

Rasmussen Poll: Walker Likely to Survive Recall Wednesday, 29 Feb 2012 12:15 PM By Marti Lotman Share: More . . . A A | Email Us | Print | Forward Article inShare Most Wisconsin voters approve of the job embattled Gov. Scott Walker is doing and oppose the effort to recall him from office before the next election, according to a new Rasmussen Reports poll. The telephone survey found that 52 percent of likely Wisconsin voters at least somewhat approve of Walker’s job performance to date, while 46 percent at least somewhat disapprove. These findings include 40 percent who strongly approve of how the Republican governor is doing and just as many (40 percent) who strongly disapprove. The survey of 500 likely voters in Wisconsin was conducted on Feb. 27. The margin of error is plus or minus 4.5 percent. Read more on Newsmax.com: Rasmussen Poll: Walker Likely to Survive Recall Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now!

comp.lang.tcl › how can tcl program be written to take advantage fo 8 cpu machine? ipc? message passing? or?

comp.lang.tcl › how can tcl program be written to take advantage fo 8 cpu machine? ipc? message passing? or? 4 posts by 4 authors in comp.lang.tcl Feb 24 (3 days ago) me curious how tclers write programs that are not stuck on 1 cpu GN Post reply Feb 25 (3 days ago) On Feb 25, 1:51 am, gavino wrote: > curious how tclers write programs that are not stuck on 1 cpu libthread, aolserver/naviserver George Petasis Post reply Feb 25 (3 days ago) Στις 25/2/2012 02:51, ο/η gavino έγραψε: > curious how tclers write programs that are not stuck on 1 cpu I use the threads package for this (creates interpreters on different threads), but I wish this kind of usage was easier in Tcl... George Tcl Bliss Post reply Feb 25 (3 days ago) Multi-threaded programming in Tcl is super simple. But, what happens often is that people get confused and scared away by the language used to explain multi-threaded programming, like using mutexes and condition variables. Let me make it clear -- you do not need to know anything about mutexes or condition variables etc. Those can be used for advanced programming, if you ever need them and once you learned the basics. Otherwise, basics are perfectly fine and enough for everyday use. Example: package require Thread; thread::create { #your code goes here} # anything you want to do, the thread exits/closes once your code completes} or set mythread [thread::create]; # this is a long lived thread, you can keep sending your code there, do [thread::release $mythread] to close/exit it. set output [thread::send $mythread {#your code}] or thread::send -async $mythread {#your code} output; vwait output; Although multi-threaded programming is very simple to start with, you only need it in cases where your application reaches 100% CPU usage or you have some code that could block your application from responding for long periods of time, otherwise you just waste memory and reduce performance by needlessly creating and using threads.

chezweb 2 chez scheme

http://www.sacrideo.us/v5/proj/chezweb/

hitler paintings

http://www.bytwerk.com/gpa/hitlerpaintings.htm

To look into a completely uncertain future and determine that negative interest rates can persist for another four years without igniting inflation is to me the height of economic insanity. Sadly, the inmates have the keys to the institution.

Waist Deep in the Big Muddy By: Peter Schiff Friday, January 27, 2012 With its announcement this week that it will keep interest rates near zero until at least late 2014, the Federal Reserve has put another large crack into the foundations underlying the US dollar. In a misguided attempt to provide clarity and transparency, Ben Bernanke has instead laid out a simple road map for economists and investors to follow. The signposts are easily understood: the Fed will stop at nothing in pursuing its goals of creating phantom GDP growth, holding down unemployment, propping up stock and housing prices, and monetizing government debt. To do so, it will continue to pursue a policy of negative interest rates, while ignoring the collateral damage of unsustainable debt, virulent inflation, misallocated resources and credit, suffering yield-dependent retirees, and a devalued U.S. currency. Not surprisingly, precious metals and foreign currencies rallied strongly on the news - with gold up more than 4.3% and the Dollar Index down nearly 1.6% in the days following the announcement. The Dollar Index is now down more than 3.5% from its highs in mid-January. In coming to the momentous decision to extend the Fed's prior low-rate promises by another 18 months, Bernanke and his cohorts relied on a somber view of the economy that is at odds with the sunnier view presented the night before by President Obama in his State of the Union address. To justify holding rates so low for so long, the Fed is choosing to ignore the fact that CPI inflation is currently running north of 3%. Instead, it has conveniently chosen to look at a hand-picked alternative measure, the chain-weighted core PCE, which comes in just a shade below the Fed's arbitrary 2% target. How convenient. After some changes in key membership at the Federal Reserve's policy-setting Open Markets Committee, in which a few long-time hawks were put out to pasture, the Fed has now established itself at the extreme dovish end of the policy spectrum. Among other central banks around the world, it may now be outflanked only by some very profligate ones in South America and sub-Saharan Africa. Unfortunately, the FOMC has its hands on the wheel of the world's reserve currency, and therefore its decisions may lead the planet into financial chaos as long as other nations are content to follow the Fed farther and farther into a swamp of liquidity. To paraphrase Pete Seeger's protest of the escalation of the war in Vietnam, "we are waist deep in the Big Muddy and the damn fool yells 'press on.'" The only bright side of the announcement is that it provides precious-metal and foreign-equity investors a fairly good sense that they are on the right side of history. In order to keep rates low, especially at the long end of the yield curve where it matters most, the Fed must continually print money to buy U.S. Treasuries. This will likely push more investors into gold and away from dollar-denominated assets. As a testament to their own faith in themselves to forecast economic conditions, 6 of the 17 voting FOMC members indicated that they would have preferred to keep rates close to zero at least through 2015. Some even had the audacity to prefer no change until 2016! This comes from the body that couldn't predict the 2008 financial crisis, even while it stared at them from point-blank range. To look into a completely uncertain future and determine that negative interest rates can persist for another four years without igniting inflation is to me the height of economic insanity. Sadly, the inmates have the keys to the institution. The lunacy persists in the rest of the government as well, with Congress and the White House still failing to address our nation's long-term debt issues. The Fed's commitment gives these politicians a "Get Out of Jail Free" card to continue avoiding responsibility. The deficits will be monetized, so no real efforts need be made to cut spending or raise taxes on middle-class Americans. Central to these plans is the assumption that the rest of the world will happily park their savings in U.S. dollars forever. If the latest announcement does not disabuse the world of this notion, I don't know what will. As long as interest rates remain far below the rate of inflation, the U.S. economy will fail to equitably restructure itself for a lasting recovery. As a secondary effect, U.S. savers will likely continue to suffer from a lack of yield and a weakening currency. In the end, the collapse of the U.S. economy will be that much more spectacular due to the great lengths we have gone to postpone it.

As usual, Paul Krugman overlooks basic economics (which, despite his Nobel Prize, is a science about which Mr. Krugman really knows very little).

Keynesians Jump The Gun on Inflation By: Peter Schiff Monday, February 13, 2012 Advocates of government stimulus are running victory laps on recent developments that appear to vindicate their strategy. In particular, Paul Krugman compares the sluggish growth in Europe to the somewhat-less-sluggish growth in the US to prove that stimulus was more effective than austerity. Other economists are using government inflation measures to defend Fed Chairman Bernanke's easy-money policy. The only problem is, they're calling the race before the finish line is even in sight. As usual, Paul Krugman overlooks basic economics (which, despite his Nobel Prize, is a science about which Mr. Krugman really knows very little). The reason stimulus is so politically popular is that it appears to work in the short-term. However, appearances can often be deceiving, as they are right now in the US. Stimulus merely numbs the pain of economic contraction, as the underlying trauma gets worse. Austerity might slow an economy down, but at least the wounds are able to heal. America has chosen the former and Europe the latter, albeit not quite as large a dose as needed. The fact that in the short-run Europe is suffering more than the US does not vindicate Washington's approach. On the contrary, this is exactly what is to be expected. What we're seeing is like a race where each runner has a broken ankle. One has a coach who tells him to pace himself and not worry so much about winning this one, while the other coach gives his runner a shot of painkillers and tells him to give it all he's got. Of course, early in the race, the doped-up runner is going to be flying down the track like nothing's wrong, while the other runner might be limping at half his normal speed. However, when the drugs wear off, the sprinter is liable to collapse from pain, leaving the better-coached runner to limp across the finish line. The true test is not the immediate effects of stimulus or austerity, but the long-term results. For that reason, Krugman’s conclusions are meaningless. The apparent success of stimulus simply results from spending more borrowed money on government programs and consumption. But don't we all agree now that this is exactly what caused the financial crisis in the first place? As far as inflation is concerned, a vindication of Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke is equally premature. First of all, it’s not that Quantitative Easing will lead to inflation; it’s that QE is inflation. Secondly, there is a lag between QE and rising consumer prices, so the jury is still out as to how high consumer prices will ultimately rise as a result of current and past Fed policy mistakes. But even more fundamentally, it is absurd to look solely at government price measures, which are built to understate inflation, and conclude that QE has not already produced an elevated cost-of-living. For example, the 2.4% rise in the Personal Consumption Expenditure (PCE) Index in 2011 is more of an indictment of the accuracy of the index than a vindication of Bernanke. In fact, of all the ways the government purports to measure inflation, the PCE is perhaps the most meaningless, as it relies on built-in mechanisms like goods substitution to hide a lower standard of living. As an example of how this works, imagine you are used to eating farm-fresh butter but have to switch to cheaper but also less-healthy margarine from a factory; the PCE would say you are no worse off. That's exactly why the Fed chooses to use this uncommon metric. Mark Gertler, an economics professor at New York University, argues that even the Consumer Price Index, which rose at a more vigorous 3.2% in 2011, proves Bernanke’s critics wrong. According to Gertler, the CPI has risen at an average annual rate of 2.4% thus far under Bernanke’s tenure, significantly less than the 3.1% average under Alan Greenspan, and the 6.3% under Paul Volcker. However, Gertler overlooks two key points. First, the methodology used to calculate the CPI was much different during the Volcker era. If we still calculated the CPI the way we did then, the numbers would be much higher for both Greenspan and Bernanke. Second, given the huge economic contraction that has taken place under Bernanke, consumer prices should have fallen – significantly. The fact that they rose anyway indicates tremendous inflation. Of course, the Fed’s ability to stimulate the economy with inflation only works as long as bondholders remain ignorant of its plan. For now, the seemingly hopeful news reports are giving the Fed cover to keep stimulating. As long as the market remains convinced there is no inflation, the Fed can continue to create it. However, once the effects are so pronounced that even the PCE can no longer hide them, the Fed will be in a real bind. Think of our two runners again. Even after the race is over, the fellow who chose to dope up likely injured himself even further. He might have even ended his career. So, the early dash and the cheer of the crowd in that one race was clearly not worth the many years of misery he would incur in the future. Regardless of what the triumphant Keynesians would have you believe, my analysis continues to be that the current combination of monetary and fiscal stimulus is driving us toward disaster. Instead of a real recovery, the US will experience an inflationary depression. Europe, on the other hand, will suffer much less, precisely because it was not seduced by the short-term appeal of stimulus. For an in-depth look at the prospects of international currencies, download Peter Schiff's and Axel Merk's Five Favorite Currencies for the Next Five Years. Subscribe to Euro Pacific's Weekly Digest: Receive all commentaries by Peter Schiff, John Browne, and other Euro Pacific commentators delivered to your inbox every Monday. For a great primer on economics, be sure to pick up a copy of Peter Schiff's hit economic parable, How an Economy Grows and Why It Crashes.

Rasmussen: Paul, Romney Both Overtake Obama in Favorability Ratings Monday, 27 Feb 2012 11:56 AM

Rasmussen: Paul, Romney Both Overtake Obama in Favorability Ratings Monday, 27 Feb 2012 11:56 AM By Martin Gould Share: More . . . A A | Email Us | Print | Forward Article inShare 3 President Barack Obama’s favorability rating has fallen to its lowest point in more than a month, allowing two prospective opponents — Mitt Romney and Ron Paul — to overtake him in Rasmussen Reports’ daily tracking poll. It is the first time since last year that Obama has trailed any of the four GOP candidates in the poll. Both Romney and Paul beat the president by 2 percentage points. But the polling organization acknowledged that it is too early to tell if the result of Monday’s poll is a blip or if it signals a deeper problem for Obama. “It remains to be seen, of course, if this is merely statistical noise or a lasting change signaling that the president’s recent bounce in the polls has come to an end,” according to a news release from the company, headed by Scott Rasmussen, author of “The People's Money: How Voters Will Balance the Budget and Eliminate the Federal Debt.” Just 26 percent of voters strongly approve of Obama’s performance in the White House, while 42 percent strongly disapprove. He has seen a 6 percentage point drop in two weeks, according to Rasmussen's figures. Romney leads Obama by 45 percent to 43, while Paul leads by 43 percent to 41. The poll shows the president still ahead of the other two candidates in the race: He leads Rick Santorum by 45 percent to 43, and holds a 49-39 margin over Newt Gingrich. “Paul now joins Rick Perry, Herman Cain, Santorum, and Gingrich as front-runners who have led the president in a single Rasmussen Reports poll,” the company said. “However, it remains to be seen whether Paul can do what those others have not accomplished and lead the president more than once. So far, the only GOP candidate to do that is Romney.” A particular weakness for the Texas congressman is his standing with female voters, Rasmussen said. Paul beats Obama by 13 percentage points among men, but trails by 8 points with women. Editor's note: To get a copy of Scott Rasmussen's new book, “The People's Money: How Voters Will Balance the Budget and Eliminate the Federal Debt," at a good price at Amazon — Go Here Now.

tip 0 until obama is gone

tip 0 until obama is gone

Economic numbers crishing Obama's re election hopes

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2012/02/24/dem_pollster_voters_dont_believe_obamas_economic_messaging

Imagine continually explaining that markets function because they have a built in corrective mechanism; that periodic contractions are necessary to weed out unproductive ventures; that continually loosening credit to avoid such corrections just puts off the day of reckoning and inevitably leads to a larger recession; that this is precisely what the government did during the 1920's that led to the great depression; and then, when the recession hits, seeing it offered as proof of the failure of laissez-faire capitalism.

CV Text of Publications Links Home John Hasnas Associate Professor McDonough School of Business Georgetown University What It Feels Like To Be A Libertarian (posted January 2009) Political analysts frequently consider what it means to be a libertarian. In fact, in 1997, Charles Murray published a short book entitled "What It Means to Be a Libertarian" that does an excellent job of presenting the core principles of libertarian political philosophy. But almost no one ever discusses what it feels like to be a libertarian. How does it actually feel to be someone who holds the principles described in Murray’s book? I’ll tell you. It feels bad. Being a libertarian means living with an almost unendurable level of frustration. It means being subject to unending scorn and derision despite being inevitably proven correct by events. How does it feel to be a libertarian? Imagine what the internal life of Cassandra must have been and you will have a pretty good idea. Imagine spending two decades warning that government policy is leading to a major economic collapse, and then, when the collapse comes, watching the world conclude that markets do not work. Imagine continually explaining that markets function because they have a built in corrective mechanism; that periodic contractions are necessary to weed out unproductive ventures; that continually loosening credit to avoid such corrections just puts off the day of reckoning and inevitably leads to a larger recession; that this is precisely what the government did during the 1920's that led to the great depression; and then, when the recession hits, seeing it offered as proof of the failure of laissez-faire capitalism. Imagine spending years decrying federal intervention in the home mortgage market; pointing out the dangers associated with legislation such as the Community Reinvestment Act that forces lenders to make more risky loans than they otherwise would; testifying before Congress on the lack of oversight and inevitable insolvency of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to legislators who angrily respond either that one is "exaggerat[ing] a threat of safety and soundness . . . which I do not see" (Barney Frank) or "[I]f it ain’t broke, why do you want to fix it? Have the GSEs [government-sponsored enterprises] ever missed their housing goals" (Maxine Waters) or "[T]he problem that we have and that we are faced with is maybe some individuals who wanted to do away with GSEs in the first place" (Gregory Meeks) or that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are "one of the great success stories of all time" (Christopher Dodd); and arguing that the moral hazard created by the implicit federal backing of such privately-owned government-sponsored enterprises is likely to set off a wave of unjustifiably risky investments, and then, when the housing market implodes under the weight of bad loans, watching the collapse get blamed on the greed and rapaciousness of "Wall Street." I remember attending a lecture at Georgetown in the mid-1990s given by a member of the libertarian Cato Institute in which he predicted that, unless changed, government policy would trigger an economic crisis by 2006. That prediction was obviously ideologically-motivated alarmism. After all, the crisis did not occur until 2008. Libertarians spend their lives accurately predicting the future effects of government policy. Their predictions are accurate because they are derived from Hayek’s insights into the limitations of human knowledge, from the recognition that the people who comprise the government respond to incentives just like anyone else and are not magically transformed to selfless agents of the good merely by accepting government employment, from the awareness that for government to provide a benefit to some, it must first take it from others, and from the knowledge that politicians cannot repeal the laws of economics. For the same reason, their predictions are usually negative and utterly inconsistent with the utopian wishful-thinking that lies at the heart of virtually all contemporary political advocacy. And because no one likes to hear that he cannot have his cake and eat it too or be told that his good intentions cannot be translated into reality either by waving a magic wand or by passing legislation, these predictions are greeted not merely with disbelief, but with derision. It is human nature to want to shoot the messenger bearing unwelcome tidings. And so, for the sin of continually pointing out that the emperor has no clothes, libertarians are attacked as heartless bastards devoid of compassion for the less fortunate, despicable flacks for the rich or for business interests, unthinking dogmatists who place blind faith in the free market, or, at best, members of the lunatic fringe. Cassandra’s curse was to always tell the truth about the future, but never be believed. If you add to that curse that she would be ridiculed, derided, and shunned for making her predictions, you have a pretty fair approximation of what it feels like to be a libertarian. If you’d like a taste of what it feels like to be a libertarian, try telling people that the incoming Obama Administration is advocating precisely those aspects of FDR’s New Deal that prolonged the great depression for a decade; that propping up failed and failing ventures with government money in order to save jobs in the present merely shifts resources from relatively more to relatively less productive uses, impedes the corrective process, undermines the economic growth necessary for recovery, and increases unemployment in the long term; and that any "economic" stimulus package will inexorably be made to serve political rather than economic ends, and see what kind of reaction you get. And trust me, it won’t feel any better five or ten years from now when everything you have just said has been proven true and Obama, like FDR, is nonetheless revered as the savior of the country.

solyandra scandal bigger by day

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/8/solyndra-sold-assets-cheap-for-fast-cash/print/

To all Osama supporters= Your boy is nothing more than an incompetent marxist con artist who's only success as President was earned on the shoulders of "the worst president in American history."

GW was proven right on Iraq in 2008... Nobody paid attention though « on: February 25, 2012, 03:04:10 AM » So now there is a cry of panic echoing through the useless halls of international diplomacy over the stockpiles of WMD's the Assad regime has in Syria. Gee Whiz-- where did these weapons come from!? http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-07/us/iraq.uranium_1_yellowcake-uranium-cameco?_s=PM:US Now: http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/02/24/exclusive_state_department_quietly_warning_region_on_syrian_wmds So, I ask you-- If we somehow gain possession of these weapons, how long will it take the Osama administration to somehow take credit (just like the Bin Laden hit) and ride GW's coatails here? BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED! To all Osama supporters= Your boy is nothing more than an incompetent marxist con artist who's only success as President was earned on the shoulders of "the worst president in American history." 4 more years!

why so many minorityish remakes of good movies? stop calling by ssame name new carpppy parody damn u hollywood!!

get some original bones in your body!! its as bad as people trying to defame ron reagan

le bron = french for a huge nasty loud shit accompanied by loud rattling farts n squirts

le bron defined

another 10 folks and someone tell jenifser aniston get off of the screen u never were hot

This summary is not available. Please click here to view the post.

barkleys points per shot when you add half ft to fg and divide pints by it is way higher than jordans so only thing be said is barkley didnt take enuf shots, at jordans rate his avg be 42 a gaem for season

barkleys points per shot when you add half ft to fg and divide pints by it is way higher than jordans so only thing be said is barkley didnt take enuf shots, at jordans rate his avg be 42 a gaem for season

(02:45:02) lawful_evil: I think once USA ends the obama experiment this fall, things will get back to good, and repubs take senate adn oust the idiots.

(02:45:02) lawful_evil: I think once USA ends the obama experiment this fall, things will get back to good, and repubs take senate adn oust the idiots. (02:45:21) lawful_evil: we need to radicaly move to hong kong style flat tax (02:45:28) crees [~crees@freebsd/developer/crees] entered the room. (02:45:30) lawful_evil: and lower medical prices though commodification

schooling commy on smaller government

407 I am so sick of hearing arguments that "small government" will be better for America. Small government supporters, can you name even one country with a very high standard of living that has a small federal government? (self.politics) submitted 13 hours ago by gashmoney It just seems that every nation in the list of highest standards of living has a large government, high tax rate, and large social safety net 1082 commentssharesavehidereport top 200 commentsshow 500 sorted by: new formatting help save [–]falldems 1 point 39 milliseconds ago Well dunce, the USA, and USA is no1 and got that way due to small federal government. Notice the euro impoding at states going bankrupt as strong federal government aka communism grips europe and squuezes!! lol if government could wave wand and give us all a mansion it would, but that is a pipe dream, what it really creates are unfirable non sproductive assholes who demand automatic pay increses and pensions for producing nothing. As the percent of them gets bigger the country falters as USA is doing. permalinkeditdeletereply

why are people so protective of the net but vote for big taxing regulating and spending obama

I dont get it.

nuke israel lol rant also lustron homes

3:58:06 AM) deodand: hows the communism folks? (3:58:40 AM) paradox: nice and jewish (3:59:18 AM) RegEchse [~obscurant@123.237.141.128] entered the room. (3:59:25 AM) mode (+v RegEchse) by moderatum (4:04:30 AM) keilty_ [~ff@ip92.ppp122.glazov.net] entered the room. (4:04:56 AM) mode (+v keilty_) by moderatum (4:09:49 AM) cjsarette [~cloudride@19.sub-174-235-197.myvzw.com] entered the room. (4:09:56 AM) mode (+v cjsarette) by moderatum (4:10:24 AM) keilty left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 499 seconds). (4:12:52 AM) mode (-b *!*@118.97.95.159) by moderatum (4:13:50 AM) deodand: lol (4:13:54 AM) deodand: nuke israel (4:13:59 AM) paradox: indeed. (4:14:09 AM) paradox: zionist terrorist scum. (4:15:06 AM) Lukin: lets nuke israel. Why not? (4:15:19 AM) Lukin: great idea (4:15:54 AM) paradox: how many nukes does israel have? (4:16:07 AM) Lukin: Many. (4:16:17 AM) paradox: nuking them would probable nuke the whole world (4:17:19 AM) Lukin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons (4:17:43 AM) Lukin: it says 80-200 for Israel (4:23:54 AM) paradox: America should invade Israel for doing 9/11 (4:25:05 AM) Son0fSpam left the room (quit: ). (4:29:50 AM) seventh [seventh@31.6.61.244] entered the room. (4:29:50 AM) mode (+b *!*@31.6.*) by coppertop (4:29:50 AM) seventh left the room (Kicked by coppertop (Banned: Abusive user or domain)). (4:33:52 AM) mode (-b *!*@200-40-192-48.montevideo.rr.res.globalwireandcable.com) by coppertop (4:33:55 AM) deodand: roll un in (4:33:57 AM) deodand: remvoe jews (4:34:01 AM) deodand: give to palineans (4:34:10 AM) deodand: take awya all welfare from usa to area (4:34:16 AM) deodand: let it revert to crap sand desert (4:34:28 AM) deodand: build nuclea rpower plans by dozen for elctric ar (4:34:31 AM) deodand: be done with it (4:35:31 AM) luldangs [nY3hnbOpoZ@2001:470:1f0e:bee::2] entered the room. (4:35:58 AM) mode (+v luldangs) by moderatum (4:36:08 AM) deodand: luston home awesome (4:36:10 AM) deodand: all steel (4:36:18 AM) deodand: porcelain coating like stove (4:36:23 AM) deodand: 0 maintenance $7000 (4:36:27 AM) deodand: imagine that (4:36:32 AM) deodand: no rent or mortgage (4:36:38 AM) deodand: and make em tax free (4:36:42 AM) deodand: end all land taxes

http://www.siliconsqueak.org/ silicon squeak smalltalk chip

http://www.siliconsqueak.org/ Most SiliconSqueak versions will have more than one processor on the chip. SiliconSqueak is therefore also a parallel processor system, with 2 to 30 processors per chip. You can have many chips connected together for larger numbers of processors, A future design, the SiliconSqueak Wafer, could have around 16.000 processors and their respective memories on a 'chip' the size of a CD. A web server and supercomputer node has 64 processors with a total of 8 GB DRAM running all Squeak based webservers at less than $20 per processor. You can connect as many as you want to build supercomputers and cloud computers.

After World War II, The US Government had an interest in creating new housing for returning servicemen. Carl Strandlund obtained a government loan to produce homes of steel with porcelain coated exterior panels, steel framing and steel interior walls and ceiling. He founded the Lustron Corporation and built approximately 2,498 Lustron Homes in a former aircraft plant in Columbus OHIO. The Lustron homes were designed to be maintenance free, cost approximately $7,000, and were produced in 1949 and 1950. These homes were considered to be three times stronger than a traditional stick built home and were advertised as being rodent proof, fire proof , lightening proof, and rustproof.

After World War II, The US Government had an interest in creating new housing for returning servicemen. Carl Strandlund obtained a government loan to produce homes of steel with porcelain coated exterior panels, steel framing and steel interior walls and ceiling. He founded the Lustron Corporation and built approximately 2,498 Lustron Homes in a former aircraft plant in Columbus OHIO. The Lustron homes were designed to be maintenance free, cost approximately $7,000, and were produced in 1949 and 1950. These homes were considered to be three times stronger than a traditional stick built home and were advertised as being rodent proof, fire proof , lightening proof, and rustproof.

picolisp looks freaking awesome

http://www.software-lab.de/doc/faq.html#macros

tim duncan 2003 fun to watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR6AgYWdoBQ&feature=related

jews attack dissenters at on campus pro israel theater spepch lol awesoem see jews in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17GOAwEJVYk&feature=related

Chris Christie is fucking awesome, what he did you sneaky bastards for nto reporting thsi is veto the legislature trying to pass gay mararige against wil of people adn he will let teh people of the state of NJU vote on the issue, and legislature and gay sgo nuts because they know democratically the majority will vote gay marraige down, As I would, since it is not discimination thats crazy talk, governemnt should be out of all marraige!!

Chris Christie is fucking awesome, what he did you sneaky bastards for nto reporting thsi is veto the legislature trying to pass gay mararige against wil of people adn he will let teh people of the state of NJU vote on the issue, and legislature and gay sgo nuts because they know democratically the majority will vote gay marraige down, As I would, since it is not discimination thats crazy talk, governemnt should be out of all marraige!!

UN should roll in an ddisarm israel, establish palestinean state, the dissolve israel

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/02/the-arab-spring-comes-to-israel/253600/

obama raised debt 7 trillion in 3 years WOW most EVER worst president ever

dems get real and stop giving the 3T of bailouts to bush u fucks lol, obama raised taxes 7Trillion as you well know deeficit spending is simply raising taxes then as bonus the penalty grow with interest!! then take cash and give to friends liek saul alinsky and uaw at gm

UNM Students being attacked at an Israel Alliance event on campus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dcGJk2Lpv4&feature=related

jews suppress dissent at mic check and get violent media ignores

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaYIYa54CSA

Alinsky-tied group awarded $56 million federal loan for health insurance project Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/23/alinsky-tied-group-awarded-56-million-federal-loan-for-health-insurance-project/?test=latestnews#ixzz1nOJDni6p

Alinsky-tied group awarded $56 million federal loan for health insurance project Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/23/alinsky-tied-group-awarded-56-million-federal-loan-for-health-insurance-project/?test=latestnews#ixzz1nOJDni6p

end governemtn controlled school

end it = just welfare nothing accmoplished

someone shoot tim geithner and bernanake thieves and just keep stealing

thieves

most americans dont want obama care

deep down they know its a scam liek every government organization, massive cash in and barely any output, 0 hospitals created, 0 doctorsa trained, adn 30,000 new IRS agents lol

schooling a commy and payign kids to get As awesom rant

(1:43:26 PM) The topic for #gobolinux is: Latest tools are Compile 1.13.3 and Scripts 2.10.2 | Stable LiveCD is 014.01 | LiveCD snapshot is available at http://karlsson.sytes.net/gobo/015/iso/GoboLinux-20100214.iso (1:43:34 PM) lawful_evil: hows the communism folks? (1:49:30 PM) shevy: lawful_evil communism killed gobolinux :( (1:52:01 PM) lawful_evil: 14? (1:52:03 PM) MinceR: well, in a way it did, i guess (1:52:04 PM) lawful_evil: is 15 out? (1:52:18 PM) lawful_evil: iwll it rise as pheonix (1:52:34 PM) lawful_evil: I suggested today than illumian use gobolinux packaing sysem (1:52:37 PM) lawful_evil: they not amused (1:52:42 PM) lawful_evil: soalris bastards (1:54:53 PM) shevy: 15 will never happen (1:55:09 PM) shevy: we should set a closing year for gobolinux to keep the memories (1:57:44 PM) lawful_evil: shevy ever been to pattaya beach? (1:57:56 PM) shevy: never heard that name before (1:58:05 PM) lawful_evil: you should look into it (1:58:18 PM) lawful_evil: I forgot are u like a seattle student? (1:58:27 PM) shevy: never been to the USA before (1:59:48 PM) lawful_evil: are you australian? (2:00:19 PM) shevy: no (2:00:35 PM) lawful_evil: mm (2:00:40 PM) lawful_evil: italain? (2:00:46 PM) shevy: no (2:01:06 PM) lawful_evil: mmmm (2:01:10 PM) lawful_evil: russian? (2:02:29 PM) shevy: no (2:03:21 PM) lawful_evil: english? (2:03:27 PM) lawful_evil: I give up (2:10:38 PM) shevy: man (2:10:41 PM) shevy: we spoke before (2:10:45 PM) shevy: did you forget Schwarzenegger? (2:14:08 PM) lawful_evil: arnold? (2:14:11 PM) lawful_evil: what about him? (2:14:15 PM) lawful_evil: german? (2:15:38 PM) MinceR: no, austrian (2:17:39 PM) lawful_evil: ah (2:17:48 PM) lawful_evil: are you working as a unix admin? (2:18:51 PM) lawful_evil: or a student (2:20:16 PM) MinceR: neither (2:20:22 PM) MinceR: i'm a software engineer (2:20:43 PM) lawful_evil: working? (2:20:45 PM) lawful_evil: oh good man (2:20:52 PM) MinceR: yup (2:20:52 PM) lawful_evil: what is your work language? (2:20:57 PM) lawful_evil: java? (2:20:58 PM) MinceR: several, nowadays (2:21:00 PM) lawful_evil: perl? (2:21:03 PM) lawful_evil: well main one (2:21:07 PM) lawful_evil: one u get paid to write (2:21:11 PM) MinceR: c++, c, java, bash, csh, awk, tcl (2:21:20 PM) lawful_evil: you get paid to write tcl really? (2:21:24 PM) MinceR: yes (2:21:24 PM) lawful_evil: NICE (2:21:26 PM) lawful_evil: I love tcl (2:21:29 PM) MinceR: fortunately there wasn't much of it (2:21:30 PM) MinceR: i hate tcl (2:21:34 PM) lawful_evil: I love it (2:21:35 PM) MinceR: but not as much as c# (2:21:41 PM) lawful_evil: oh I wont work with windows (2:21:45 PM) MinceR: in 2010 i was paid to code c# (2:21:49 PM) MinceR: it was enough for life (2:21:53 PM) shevy: lol (2:21:58 PM) lawful_evil: wait mInceR are u shevy? (2:22:01 PM) MinceR: nope (2:22:06 PM) MinceR: i'm myself (2:22:10 PM) lawful_evil: ok (2:22:14 PM) shevy: I'm someone else (2:22:20 PM) MinceR: :> (2:22:21 PM) lawful_evil: shevy: you are a english student? (2:22:26 PM) shevy: no (2:30:03 PM) JamesB192 left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (3:09:33 PM) You are now known as the_RAT_GOD (3:37:10 PM) The account has disconnected and you are no longer in this chat. You will be automatically rejoined in the chat when the account reconnects. (3:37:48 PM) The topic for #gobolinux is: Latest tools are Compile 1.13.3 and Scripts 2.10.2 | Stable LiveCD is 014.01 | LiveCD snapshot is available at http://karlsson.sytes.net/gobo/015/iso/GoboLinux-20100214.iso (3:38:20 PM) You are now known as RATGOD (3:40:21 PM) shevy left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 244 seconds). (3:44:44 PM) The account has disconnected and you are no longer in this chat. You will be automatically rejoined in the chat when the account reconnects. (3:48:34 PM) The topic for #gobolinux is: Latest tools are Compile 1.13.3 and Scripts 2.10.2 | Stable LiveCD is 014.01 | LiveCD snapshot is available at http://karlsson.sytes.net/gobo/015/iso/GoboLinux-20100214.iso (3:52:28 PM) shevy [~shevy@178-190-79-154.adsl.highway.telekom.at] entered the room. (3:52:41 PM) lawful_evil: lol (3:52:44 PM) lawful_evil: I dont understand commies (3:52:51 PM) lawful_evil: I mean everyoen want money for free (3:52:54 PM) lawful_evil: withotu producing (3:52:59 PM) lawful_evil: but how can they jsutify it (3:53:06 PM) lawful_evil: their really ebleieve thier own bs (3:53:20 PM) lawful_evil: while denying their own ability to give all their paychek to poor and move homeless into their apartment (3:57:36 PM) shevy: ? (3:57:57 PM) shevy: whether it is communism or corporate fascism, technology will come to the rescue eventually anyway (3:58:25 PM) lawful_evil: fascismis commnism (3:58:34 PM) lawful_evil: corate fasim is resutl gf governemtn monoply (3:58:36 PM) lawful_evil: lack of omcpeition (3:58:38 PM) lawful_evil: rgith (3:58:44 PM) lawful_evil: non tek wont (3:58:48 PM) lawful_evil: cuz of debt (4:03:07 PM) shevy: such utter bullshit (4:03:31 PM) shevy: but believe in indirect "democracy" as much as you want (4:07:02 PM) lawful_evil: I dont beleive in democracy (4:07:11 PM) lawful_evil: in democraracy 51% can vote to murder 49 (4:07:21 PM) lawful_evil: and I can vote your house you built to be mine (4:07:26 PM) lawful_evil: I believe in a republic (4:07:39 PM) lawful_evil: free market ultaimte democracy (4:07:42 PM) lawful_evil: dont liek ur shit (4:07:44 PM) lawful_evil: dont buy it (4:08:53 PM) shevy: you elect a few powerful guys to rule over others (4:09:29 PM) shevy: in the middle ages you had a feudal system and slavery (4:09:52 PM) shevy: subsidies still exist in your so called "free market" (4:10:18 PM) MinceR: lawful_evil: so instead of allowing 51% to vote to murder 49%, you'd allow less than 1% to claim popular support and murder 99%? :> (4:10:35 PM) lawful_evil: whatt? (4:10:39 PM) lawful_evil: no individual rights (4:10:52 PM) lawful_evil: no you have property rights (4:10:56 PM) lawful_evil: and limited government (4:11:03 PM) lawful_evil: idea ogvernemt ets to do whaever is bs (4:11:08 PM) lawful_evil: thats the king mentality (4:11:14 PM) lawful_evil: governmetn meant to serve people (4:11:25 PM) shevy: yeah, it is nice to read those things on paper (4:13:08 PM) lawful_evil: look when governemtn spending is cut (4:13:14 PM) lawful_evil: it costs less for evryting (4:13:18 PM) lawful_evil: costs less to produce (4:13:27 PM) lawful_evil: more gets rpoduced (4:13:33 PM) lawful_evil: and everyoen better off (4:13:39 PM) shevy: the coolest thing is that you define a society over production (4:14:10 PM) shevy: like straight outta the capitalism handbook (4:14:36 PM) lawful_evil: freedom (4:14:40 PM) lawful_evil: I like it (4:14:50 PM) shevy: that is the coolest thing about Wolfowitz (4:15:16 PM) shevy: he can talk non-stop about reducing poverty globally while doing the opposite thing at the same time (4:15:28 PM) shevy: I think they are training rhetorics a lot (4:17:08 PM) shevy: after many many years (4:17:15 PM) shevy: I come to the conclusion that all operating systems suck (4:17:31 PM) MinceR: welcome to the club (4:17:44 PM) MinceR: the same is true of web browsers and email clients, by the way (4:18:10 PM) MinceR: the point is that some suck less, though :> (4:18:24 PM) shevy: yeah but I kinda feel crippled more below the base, compared to a browser... for instance, I am trying to install libreoffice right now but when I start it, it gives me an unspecific message "application has terminated" without any more information (4:18:32 PM) shevy: at least firefox works here for me still (4:18:39 PM) shevy: but openoffice or libreoffice, no dice :( (4:18:53 PM) shevy: I had a funny moment of revelation though (4:18:59 PM) shevy: I was using adobe acrobat reader for linux (4:19:08 PM) shevy: which kinda works, but it's a bit buggy. freezes sometimes when you have many .pdf (4:19:15 PM) shevy: then I realized... I can read the .pdf in firefox too (4:19:16 PM) shevy: :P (4:19:21 PM) shevy: which works better (4:20:20 PM) lawful_evil: capitalism reduces poverty better than any other ssytem tired (4:20:24 PM) lawful_evil: so says milton friedman (4:20:27 PM) lawful_evil: right (4:20:28 PM) lawful_evil: so (4:20:32 PM) lawful_evil: lets use capitalism (4:20:33 PM) lawful_evil: more (4:20:40 PM) MinceR: it's probably true (4:20:41 PM) lawful_evil: and reduce ruels n lawyers n pensions payemnts (4:20:46 PM) MinceR: but capitalism is a very wide category (4:20:55 PM) MinceR: and there are very wrong ways to do it (4:21:11 PM) shevy: lawful_evil, how about we print as much "money" as possible? (4:21:17 PM) MinceR: :D (4:21:25 PM) shevy: then we have ABOLISHED poverty. how about that? (4:21:47 PM) lawful_evil: no no (4:21:47 PM) shevy: I also like that you let other people think for you (4:21:53 PM) lawful_evil: end all governemtn priting of money (4:21:56 PM) lawful_evil: and all gov bonds (4:21:59 PM) lawful_evil: end all epnsion (4:22:04 PM) MinceR: have everyone print money at home! (4:22:04 PM) lawful_evil: end all governemtn controleld school (4:22:08 PM) shevy: where does the U.S. government print money? (4:22:14 PM) lawful_evil: reuce governemtn to defense and contract counrts basically (4:22:26 PM) lawful_evil: I think for myself (4:22:29 PM) shevy: private banks are allowed to print money, and then go and lend it to governments (4:22:32 PM) MinceR: don't they have the Fed print money, which is a privately owned company? (4:22:32 PM) lawful_evil: commie sliek you dont think critically (4:22:37 PM) lawful_evil: thats the problem really (4:22:40 PM) MinceR: oh, even more distributed, then (4:22:41 PM) lawful_evil: communism alway fails (4:22:45 PM) lawful_evil: no (4:22:49 PM) lawful_evil: money suippyl fixed (4:22:49 PM) shevy: :) (4:22:54 PM) lawful_evil: and let merket run (4:22:56 PM) lawful_evil: end the fed (4:23:04 PM) shevy: lol (4:23:06 PM) lawful_evil: end pensions (4:23:08 PM) lawful_evil: end all welfare (4:23:09 PM) shevy: you are always talking about a revolution (4:23:13 PM) shevy: and you make no progress (4:23:14 PM) shevy: every day (4:23:16 PM) lawful_evil: no im not (4:23:18 PM) shevy: don't you want to have a new goal? (4:23:23 PM) lawful_evil: im talkin about moving in right dietion (4:23:25 PM) ***MinceR starts to wonder of lawful_evil is just a MegaHAL instance that is constantly fed republican campaign messages (4:23:27 PM) shevy: something like "lose 10 pounds in 1 month"? (4:23:28 PM) lawful_evil: and stopping creepof creeps (4:23:29 PM) lawful_evil: right (4:23:33 PM) shevy: moving in right direction (4:23:35 PM) shevy: in 19582890598052 years (4:23:38 PM) shevy: great! (4:23:49 PM) shevy: haha MinceR :D (4:23:58 PM) shevy: I am listening to space odysee right now (4:24:00 PM) shevy: HAL is cool (4:24:08 PM) shevy: I need to learn how to talk like that (4:24:15 PM) MinceR: s/of/if/ (4:24:29 PM) lawful_evil: man ur spacing out (4:24:33 PM) lawful_evil: lol (4:24:40 PM) lawful_evil: capitalism is eal (4:24:41 PM) lawful_evil: it works (4:24:50 PM) lawful_evil: but governemtn goon must be restricted from thier pwoer (4:24:56 PM) lawful_evil: which they doint wana give up the free money (4:24:56 PM) MinceR: http://megahal.alioth.debian.org/ (4:24:59 PM) lawful_evil: living fofa taxpeyers (4:25:03 PM) lawful_evil: they hat giving it up (4:25:05 PM) lawful_evil: but u gota make em (4:25:09 PM) shevy: you and your "free money" (4:25:11 PM) lawful_evil: so sociecty can get richer (4:25:16 PM) shevy: how can you have "free" money with massive debts? (4:25:24 PM) lawful_evil: dont spend (4:25:28 PM) shevy: this is a global casino (4:25:29 PM) lawful_evil: lower governetmns pending (4:25:31 PM) lawful_evil: canada for example (4:25:37 PM) lawful_evil: lwoered gov spenign by 20% in 90s (4:25:44 PM) lawful_evil: debt went awy in about 5 years (4:25:46 PM) lawful_evil: :) (4:25:47 PM) shevy: wow how awesome (4:25:50 PM) lawful_evil: I wish usa would do same (4:25:53 PM) lawful_evil: then lwoer another 20 (4:25:55 PM) lawful_evil: then 3rd (4:26:00 PM) lawful_evil: that be fucking awesome (4:26:02 PM) shevy: oh let me get what you are saying (4:26:07 PM) shevy: you are saying canada is now debt free, right? (4:26:15 PM) lawful_evil: lower governemtn spedning eman more produciton and eocnomic ctivty (4:26:25 PM) lawful_evil: less penalizing success and production (4:26:30 PM) lawful_evil: less penalizing making a pahchek (4:26:32 PM) lawful_evil: right (4:26:33 PM) lawful_evil: exactly (4:26:33 PM) shevy: http://www.debtclock.ca/ hmm strange... that's quite a big number there! (4:26:37 PM) lawful_evil: so we all get richer (4:26:39 PM) lawful_evil: got it? (4:26:42 PM) lawful_evil: right!!1 (4:26:44 PM) lawful_evil: less debt (4:26:52 PM) shevy: so strange that the counter goes up (4:26:55 PM) shevy: I thought it was at 0 (4:26:57 PM) shevy: hmmmm (4:26:57 PM) lawful_evil: exaclty why we need to get rida commies liekobama (4:27:01 PM) lawful_evil: exactly!!!! (4:27:01 PM) shevy: are you lying to me lawful_evil :( (4:27:15 PM) lawful_evil: we need tog et rid of overpsending iditos liek obama is m point (4:27:19 PM) lawful_evil: yes (4:27:27 PM) shevy: whatever the puppet, it does not matter (4:27:37 PM) lawful_evil: lying? are u spacing out again? (4:27:40 PM) shevy: you replace one guy with another guy and think everything is much better now (4:27:47 PM) shevy: you said canada got rid of debt (4:27:54 PM) shevy: I showed that your statement is incorrect (4:28:17 PM) shevy: "Canada's federal debt is estimated to total $566.7 billion for the 2010?11 fiscal year, up from $463.7 billion in 2008?09." (4:28:22 PM) shevy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada (4:28:30 PM) shevy: I THOUGHT IT IS ZERO!!! (4:28:34 PM) shevy: how can you lie to me man :( (4:28:44 PM) shevy: you had the best capitalist propaganda but it still fails (4:30:35 PM) lawful_evil: 90s (4:30:37 PM) lawful_evil: foolio (4:30:39 PM) lawful_evil: dont u read (4:31:00 PM) lawful_evil: anti capitalism is what cuasesth debt (4:31:08 PM) lawful_evil: all capitalists want at least balanced budget (4:31:17 PM) lawful_evil: its governemtn nuttjob who wana spend and add too deficit (4:31:21 PM) lawful_evil: without raiding taxes (4:32:18 PM) shevy: wait a moment (4:32:28 PM) shevy: now you claim in the 1990s canada had ZERO debt? (4:32:34 PM) lawful_evil: so your solution si to deficit spend? (4:32:36 PM) lawful_evil: no (4:32:38 PM) shevy: and now it has 566.7 billion? is that what you are saying? (4:32:39 PM) lawful_evil: they reduced debt (4:32:46 PM) lawful_evil: by cuttgin spending (4:32:50 PM) shevy: hehe (4:32:51 PM) lawful_evil: ok let me goto net (4:32:53 PM) shevy: and that helped how? :) (4:32:54 PM) lawful_evil: 1 sec (4:32:57 PM) lawful_evil: i shall edcuate you (4:33:03 PM) shevy: as a matter of fact, ALL THE DEBTS WORLD WIDE ARE GROWING (4:33:07 PM) lawful_evil: then have a lugh at your propsoed solution (4:33:12 PM) shevy: it is the underlying world philosophy of the casino capitalism (4:33:15 PM) lawful_evil: yes it is becaus eof keyensiaina eocnomics (4:33:16 PM) shevy: it is virtual money (4:33:21 PM) lawful_evil: no no (4:33:24 PM) lawful_evil: its govenremtn debt (4:33:28 PM) lawful_evil: not capitalism u fool (4:33:30 PM) shevy: the key is not in the amount of numbers in the debt, but THAT YOU CAN USE IT AS A STRATEGICAL WEAPON (4:33:32 PM) lawful_evil: governmetn spendinggggg (4:33:39 PM) shevy: look at greece. they are fucked up by goldman sucks now (4:33:50 PM) shevy: they use ALL those recipes (4:33:56 PM) shevy: - reduce public spending (4:34:11 PM) shevy: the best part is, they will get a lot of money BUT this money will never go to greece. it will directly go to the debtors (4:34:15 PM) lawful_evil: no fucked because pensions > tax income (4:34:24 PM) lawful_evil: governemtn not spend too much grece be a ok (4:34:24 PM) shevy: the pensions are like 2 billions (4:34:28 PM) lawful_evil: the gov spends toomuch (4:34:31 PM) lawful_evil: do u understand that (4:34:34 PM) lawful_evil: end all pensions (4:34:34 PM) shevy: how can you do ANYTHING with 2 billions when you have 300 billions debt?! (4:34:38 PM) shevy: lol (4:34:42 PM) shevy: learn math man (4:35:24 PM) shevy: lawful_evil the world is coming to an end anyway (4:35:48 PM) shevy: what is cool about greece is that they had to buy german submarines not long ago (4:35:55 PM) shevy: germany forced them to do that (4:36:00 PM) shevy: as part of the "deal" (4:36:11 PM) shevy: germany is behaving like old nazi germany again (4:36:24 PM) lawful_evil: http://www.welshconfed.org/companyData/1898/resources/Canada%20Sweden.pdf (4:36:29 PM) lawful_evil: see portion on canada (4:38:24 PM) lawful_evil: do u agree overspending by gov is bad? (4:39:25 PM) shevy: I think indirect "democracy" is bad (4:39:50 PM) shevy: it's like you install the mafia and then wonder why things don't run the way people would want them to have (4:42:06 PM) lawful_evil: so what model would you use? (4:42:14 PM) lawful_evil: if someone wants to start a busienss (4:42:16 PM) lawful_evil: hire people (4:42:19 PM) lawful_evil: with good idea (4:42:23 PM) lawful_evil: will u tax them? (4:42:33 PM) lawful_evil: not let them fire useless employee? (4:42:42 PM) lawful_evil: amke them bu halthcare for empopyee? (4:42:51 PM) lawful_evil: I wish governemtn would provide and produce (4:42:57 PM) lawful_evil: rather than simply order others (4:43:00 PM) shevy: lawful_evil first, I would implement a hybrid way of democracy (4:43:02 PM) lawful_evil: and fine them for doing anything (4:43:06 PM) lawful_evil: i mean if u tax income (4:43:11 PM) lawful_evil: why work harder? u take more? (4:43:14 PM) lawful_evil: i mean its insane (4:43:23 PM) lawful_evil: what does that mean? (4:43:27 PM) lawful_evil: hybrid democracy (4:43:37 PM) shevy: it means that people who want to keep indirect democracy can do so (4:43:41 PM) shevy: they can elect a representative (4:44:04 PM) shevy: on the other hand, people who do not want a representative, can participate directly (and legally binding) to vote on ideas, amendments etc.. (4:44:23 PM) lawful_evil: has this been tried anywhere? (4:44:29 PM) shevy: nope (4:44:30 PM) lawful_evil: do you have a job? (4:44:31 PM) shevy: it also is not complete (4:44:42 PM) lawful_evil: how do you earn income to love? (4:44:46 PM) lawful_evil: and live? (4:44:46 PM) shevy: there would have to be a few basic rights granted to keep the system how it is (4:45:05 PM) lawful_evil: are you employed sir? (4:45:05 PM) shevy: for instance, it would not make a lot of sense if people would elect a dictatorship (4:45:29 PM) shevy: so that would not have to be allowed, otherwise the whole system would be USELESS (4:45:36 PM) lawful_evil: ok (4:45:43 PM) lawful_evil: has such a scheme ever been tried? (4:45:49 PM) lawful_evil: or are you making it up (4:45:50 PM) shevy: nope (4:45:55 PM) lawful_evil: ok (4:45:56 PM) shevy: how could it? (4:46:03 PM) shevy: 50 years ago we barely had computers (4:46:12 PM) shevy: well, we had a very few huge ones (4:46:26 PM) shevy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer (4:46:52 PM) shevy: 1941 (4:46:55 PM) shevy: "Konrad Zuse's electromechanical "Z machines". The Z3 (1941) was the first working machine featuring binary arithmetic, including floating point arithmetic and a measure of programmability. In 1998 the Z3 was proved to be Turing complete, therefore being the world's first operational computer." (4:48:35 PM) lawful_evil: what do you think about economic incentives (4:48:47 PM) lawful_evil: for example (4:48:57 PM) lawful_evil: I think a system where u get rid of teachers (4:49:01 PM) lawful_evil: have web site (4:49:07 PM) lawful_evil: adn pay students to pass certain tests (4:49:21 PM) lawful_evil: and keep studing until they get perfect score of 100 (4:49:26 PM) shevy: you pay them to pass tests? (4:49:27 PM) lawful_evil: would be better than current school (4:49:29 PM) lawful_evil: yes (4:49:30 PM) shevy: isn't it usually the other way (4:49:32 PM) lawful_evil: no classrooms (4:49:34 PM) shevy: they have to pay, in order to take a test (4:49:42 PM) lawful_evil: well thats silly (4:49:51 PM) lawful_evil: governemtn controlled school and teahcer pensionis cost a lot (4:49:54 PM) lawful_evil: take that money (4:49:55 PM) shevy: but that is how pretty everyone is doing it (4:49:59 PM) lawful_evil: spend it better (4:49:59 PM) shevy: even universities (4:50:07 PM) lawful_evil: yeah universities are inefficenient (4:50:10 PM) shevy: you want an education, you have to pay for it (4:50:22 PM) lawful_evil: that why lnus torvalds by himself made better os than those teachers

at&T fine for bandwidth limitng and unlimited plan bastards

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-awards-iphone-user-850-195042534.html

list of guys who be better president than obama

gary johnson ron paul mitt romney newt gingrich rik perry

england lost ww1+2 to germany and capitalism is best

(1:14:38 PM) The topic for ##freebsd is: Welcome to ##FreeBSD || Last Security Advisory 2011-12-23 http://goo.gl/kPDvM || FreeBSD: We're friendlier here || RTFM: http://freebsd.org/handbook || off topic #not-##FreeBSD || For advocacy join #freebsd-advocacy (1:14:39 PM) verne.freenode.net: (notice) [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp (1:14:49 PM) lawful_evil: how si everyoien today???? (1:14:59 PM) lawful_evil: I am here to help nebies and figth commnism and marraige (1:15:11 PM) hever [~hever@rrcs-24-105-133-125.nyc.biz.rr.com] entered the room. (1:16:35 PM) Xbert left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds). (1:18:01 PM) gmoore: cant clear metadata on ada1: invalid argument. (1:18:06 PM) gmoore: gmirror: not fully done. (1:18:23 PM) melflynn: k (1:18:39 PM) Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] entered the room. (1:18:56 PM) blakkheim: running "cpuset -j 1 -l 0" should give jail 1 access to only the first cpu core right? i'm still seeing all of them in top in the jail (1:19:14 PM) gmoore: im zeroing the whole disk now just to be certain (1:19:51 PM) Fish left the room (quit: Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5). (1:20:00 PM) AthomIk [~fran@138.223.88.91.rev.sfr.net] entered the room. (1:20:04 PM) AthomIk: hello (1:20:47 PM) AthomIk: i can run windows on vm with freebsd ? (1:21:09 PM) melflynn: gmoore: I'm trying to figure out where and why in the code it finds a provider invalid (1:21:10 PM) clowninasack left the room (quit: Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). (1:21:12 PM) frogs: yes (1:21:26 PM) gmoore: thanks :) (1:21:49 PM) clowninasack [~clowninas@gateway/tor-sasl/clowninasack] entered the room. (1:22:30 PM) TvL2386: I'm loving zfs! Created a snapshot of all my volumes, did a rm -rf /* and could succesfully recover my (test) machine from the livecd (it wouldn't boot anymore of course) (1:23:00 PM) lawful_evil: yeah (1:23:06 PM) lawful_evil: slwoest aprt of machien si disk (1:23:14 PM) lawful_evil: but lets extend our use of it ad infinitiuuum (1:23:26 PM) lawful_evil: more should bee loking at www.prevayler.org (1:23:34 PM) lawful_evil: and making it run on N cpu (1:23:40 PM) lawful_evil: in my humble opinone (1:23:59 PM) TvL2386: how many times did I have to do an upgrade and had to cross my fingers because a rollback plan was not feasable... (1:24:16 PM) lawful_evil: lol (1:24:24 PM) lawful_evil: just patching soalris brings many websites down (1:24:32 PM) lawful_evil: comedy (1:24:44 PM) lawful_evil: I have continuous upgraded archlinxu withotu a hich for liek 7 years (1:24:46 PM) lawful_evil: lvoe it (1:24:55 PM) Zed` left the room (quit: Quit: Drama always seems worse than it is..). (1:25:03 PM) TvL2386: I think there's coffee in your keyboard lawful_evil (1:25:09 PM) Zed` [~Zed@sh.savantnet.com] entered the room. (1:25:26 PM) lawful_evil: probly other things too (1:25:31 PM) TvL2386: LOL (1:26:02 PM) TvL2386: I can relate, I've turned my keyboard at work upside down some time ago, started shaking it and a pile of breadcrumbs came out :D (1:26:51 PM) lawful_evil: weird matter (1:28:26 PM) lattera: TvL2386: one of the things I love about zfs is the ability to create boot environments (1:28:49 PM) jairavax left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 252 seconds). (1:28:53 PM) lattera: so before you do anything crazy, you create a new boot environment, reboot into it, then do your potentially disastrous task (1:29:05 PM) lattera: (like upgrading from 8-stable to 9-stable, for example) (1:29:29 PM) lattera: and if things go haywire, you just reactivate the old boot environment, reboot, and it's as if nothing ever happened (1:29:35 PM) TvL2386: woot lattera :D (1:29:49 PM) frogs: i clone the whole harddisk and do upgrade and note what had to be manually fixed and note and then reclone and redo until nothing unexpected happens, then do the real update (1:29:51 PM) TvL2386: lattera: I did not know about that, do you have any documentation/blogs? (1:29:56 PM) lattera: I wrote a small blog article about the subject: http://engineering.wayfair.com/freebsd-zfs-boot-environments/ (1:30:37 PM) TvL2386: I'm gonna read that lattera, cause it sounds awesome! (1:30:46 PM) gmoore^desk: melflynn Dianora alright well im confident i zeroed the end of the drive but still doesnt show up in gpart show and create/destroy/etc dont work. (1:31:06 PM) lawful_evil: if freebsd has zfs then why would anyone use solaris? (1:31:31 PM) TvL2386: lawful_evil: beats me :) I wanted zfs, I don't trust oracle, so I choose freebsd :) (1:31:32 PM) lattera: because of complete implementations of zfs, dtrace, zones, crossbow, etc. (1:31:48 PM) lattera: though I love jails, it still leaves a lot to be desired (1:31:57 PM) lattera: fbsd's implementation of dtrace is far from complete (1:32:03 PM) lattera: same with vnet (1:32:05 PM) TvL2386: what's dtrace? (1:32:12 PM) lattera: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dtrace (1:32:31 PM) lawful_evil: TvL2386: Im with u brother (1:32:32 PM) Gipsy: lawful_evil: because they hope this fits your need (1:32:56 PM) lawful_evil: this? (1:33:14 PM) melflynn: gmoore: humor me and dd 2megs of /dev/random to ada1 (1:33:15 PM) lawful_evil: what vnet do again? (1:33:27 PM) Gipsy: lawful_evil: zfs (1:33:30 PM) gmoore^desk: melflynn k gift Gipsy (1:33:42 PM) lawful_evil: Gipsy: can u please repeat the question (1:33:46 PM) TvL2386: cool! (1:34:54 PM) gmoore: melflynn: no difference, same errors for everything (1:35:28 PM) lattera: vnet is freebsd's competitor to solaris' crossbow: a virtualized networking stack (1:35:41 PM) scarcry [~scarcry@trinity.lordsith.net] entered the room. (1:35:50 PM) lawful_evil: so how is that better than jsut having virtual nics and stuf as usually (1:35:54 PM) lattera: but it's very immature when compared to crossbow (1:36:03 PM) lawful_evil: bonding etc. (1:36:32 PM) AthomIk: qemu exist on freebsd ? (1:36:34 PM) melflynn: get ada0 up and running, multi user and then see if it makes a diff, I'm pretty much out of ideas and still trying to find the code that marks a provider invalid lol (1:36:40 PM) AthomIk: or other vbox ? (1:37:00 PM) TvL2386: lattera: am I seeing it correctly and is your blog actually talking about multiboot, but within a single zfs pool? Where you can chose which volume to be root on boottime? (1:37:05 PM) gmoore^desk: melflynn so just bail on gmirror entirely for now and boot off of ada0 alone? (1:37:14 PM) Zed` left the room (quit: Quit: Drama always seems worse than it is..). (1:37:23 PM) melflynn: yep (1:37:26 PM) gmoore^desk: melflynn so all i should need to do is remount RW, edit fstab to change gm0 to ada0? (or is it ad8 for fstab?) (1:37:37 PM) Count_H left the room. (1:37:45 PM) lattera: TvL2386: yup, but not at boottime (1:37:46 PM) melflynn: ada0 yeah (1:37:52 PM) melflynn: and get rid of the /mirror/ part (1:38:06 PM) gmoore^desk: melflynn ok. and how to i remount rw? i know i should know that but i dont :/ (1:38:13 PM) lattera: you run a script before you reboot that will activate the boot environment, then you reboot, and you'll automagically be in that new environment (1:38:35 PM) tnelson left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds). (1:38:38 PM) melflynn: mount -u -o rw / (1:38:50 PM) TvL2386: lattera: I see, that's cool :) (1:38:50 PM) gmoore^desk: k. going to do this now (1:39:24 PM) AthomIk: ok i have read freebsd jail, it s great, but if i wanna use a small windows vm, i can on freebsd ? (1:39:45 PM) TvL2386: lattera: is that doing something like setting mountpoints to none except for 1 volume (and reboot) (1:40:45 PM) TvL2386: lattera: or am I thinking to easily here :) (1:41:22 PM) lattera: it's a bit more complicated than that, but I linked to the manageBE script in that blog post (1:41:28 PM) lattera: so you can read the script and see what it's doing (1:41:36 PM) gmoore: melflynn: editing fstab now. what do i need to do to make the loader boot from ada0 by default instead of gm0 (1:42:13 PM) blakkheim: AthomIk: with virtualbox (1:42:16 PM) TvL2386: lattera: will do, interesting! (1:42:27 PM) lawful_evil: hmm (1:42:31 PM) gmoore: i thought it was loader.conf but its not (1:42:53 PM) lawful_evil: does linux support virtualized network stack and if so what? what is advantage over virtual nics and bonding setups? (1:42:53 PM) tmclaugh left the room (quit: Quit: tmclaugh). (1:43:36 PM) lattera: I haven't run linux outside of android for years, I don't know nor do I care, especially since this is ##freebsd (1:44:11 PM) melflynn: if / is correct in /etc/fstab, everything should go ok (1:44:30 PM) gmoore: but how does it know to look at ada0? (1:44:43 PM) gmoore: isnt it set to try to boot from mirror/gm0 (1:44:55 PM) Vutral left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds). (1:45:30 PM) melflynn: it doesn't look for ada0, it looks for the disk the bios hands it, boots, then tries to mount root from what it finds in /etc/fstab (1:45:40 PM) gmoore: o (1:45:43 PM) gmoore: ok ill reboot it now (1:45:49 PM) TvL2386: lawful_evil: what do you mean with "virtualized network stack" (1:46:38 PM) Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] entered the room. (1:47:21 PM) lawful_evil: the crossbow or vnet apps (1:47:38 PM) agoldson [~abg3x@unaffiliated/apot] entered the room. (1:48:03 PM) gmoore^desk: melflynn alright it came up without any issues. now, since i was in the middle of updating to 9.0, im going to finish freebsd-update install now (1:48:16 PM) gmoore^desk: to finish getting 9.0 (1:48:23 PM) TvL2386: I've got experience with linux bonding and virtualization using virtualbox, xen and kvm/qemu, but don't know how that's related to what your asking... it isn't? (1:48:25 PM) gmoore^desk: then ill go back to fiddling with gmirror shortly (1:48:27 PM) Kobaz: how do i list all network routes (1:48:43 PM) TvL2386: Kobaz: netstat -rn (1:48:43 PM) AthomIk: blakkheim: virtualbox run on freebsd ? (1:48:47 PM) AthomIk: hum hum (1:48:58 PM) blabber left the room (quit: Quit: leaving). (1:49:18 PM) gmoore^desk: melflynn right now ive got it all fully functional just no longer gmirrored and my mirrored drive is now trashed :P so i'd like to set that up soon. once i finish the 9.0 update i can work on it from up here in multi user mode (1:49:35 PM) blakkheim: AthomIk: yes it doe (1:49:36 PM) blakkheim: s (1:49:46 PM) gmoore^desk: melflynn maybe simply creating the gmirror volume from the 9.0 gmirror tools will work just fine? (1:50:03 PM) melflynn: omg, you have 9.0 kernel with 8.2 base tools? (1:50:22 PM) gmoore^desk: yes i was in the middle of updating to 9.0. that was the entire reason i was in this predicament :/ (1:50:29 PM) AthomIk: blakkheim: it s a great day for my lan :) (1:50:32 PM) gmoore^desk: ...is that probably what was causing it? :/ (1:50:33 PM) AthomIk: thk (1:50:39 PM) melflynn: wow, that explains a *lot* (1:50:43 PM) gmoore^desk: shit. sorry :( (1:50:53 PM) gmoore^desk: ok well it's installing the 9.0 tools now (1:52:13 PM) gmoore^desk: "Please rebuild all installed 3rd party software and then run "/usr/sbin/freebsd-update install"" -- well this is going to take hours so ill have to return to the gmirror issue later (1:52:41 PM) Commander1024 left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 260 seconds). (1:52:44 PM) gmoore^desk: sorry, i didnt realize 8.2 tools / 9.0 kernel would cause problems for gmirror. also it seemed like that was the step that guy's blog was detailing. i apologize if i ended up wasting a ton of time for a nonexistant problem :( (1:52:45 PM) TvL2386: AthomIk: /usr/ports/emulators/virtualbox-ose i think (1:53:15 PM) melflynn: it's ok man, never occured to me to ask (1:53:55 PM) melflynn: do you have a 9.0 gpart now? (1:54:22 PM) gmoore^desk: yeah. ada0 is healthy and OK, running 9.0 kernel multi-user. i need to `portmaster -af` to rebuild all ports then finish the 9.0 install (1:54:32 PM) gmoore^desk: i dont have a gmirror anymore and ada1 is twisting in the wind (1:54:46 PM) melflynn: but is /sbin/gpart now 9.0? (1:55:18 PM) gmoore^desk: melflynn im not sure. easy way to check? it may not replace all utils until after i do the rebuild (1:55:34 PM) melflynn: ls -l and datestamp I guess (1:55:46 PM) Indian_ [~Indian@unaffiliated/londonmet050] entered the room. (1:55:48 PM) hjbehling left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer). (1:56:39 PM) Commander1024 [~Commander@ip-62-143-110-139.unitymediagroup.de] entered the room. (1:57:59 PM) gmoore^desk: based on datestamp its from 6 minutes ago and i just did the freebsd-update install so yeah it looks like its the new one now (1:58:35 PM) Indian left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds). (1:58:35 PM) Indian_ is now known as Indian (1:58:35 PM) melflynn: ok, gpart create -s GPT ada1 (1:58:46 PM) gmoore^desk: safe to do in multi user mode fully booted? (1:58:58 PM) melflynn: yeah, the disk isn't mounted (1:59:05 PM) melflynn: or even "busy" (1:59:18 PM) gmoore^desk: k (1:59:31 PM) gmoore^desk: also i cant use atacontrol but i can use camcontrol and it sees both of these disks at ata0 and ata1 (1:59:37 PM) lawful_evil: what is main difference betwixt HAMMER and zfs? (1:59:42 PM) jairavax [~Anthony@68-168-180-16.fttp.usinternet.com] entered the room. (2:00:20 PM) gmoore^desk: leviathan# gpart create -s GPT ada1 (2:00:21 PM) gmoore^desk: ada1 created (2:00:23 PM) gmoore^desk: son of a bitch (2:00:24 PM) gmoore^desk: :/ (2:00:40 PM) gmoore^desk: sorry for being so fucking retarded (2:00:47 PM) melflynn: lol don't sweat (2:00:58 PM) melflynn: I won't forget easily :) (2:01:08 PM) melflynn: so it won't happen to me (yeah right) (2:01:22 PM) gmoore^desk: so do you think it's even necessary to follow his steps to convert both disks to GPT or can i just stick with BSD and try recreating a raid1 gmirror following http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/geom-mirror.html ? (2:01:57 PM) melflynn: I would go with that guide, cause it creates labels (2:02:05 PM) melflynn: and gpt partitions (2:02:18 PM) melflynn: which means forwards compatible against any diskname changes (2:02:27 PM) AthomIk: TvL2386: ok thk (2:02:29 PM) rubendv left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer). (2:02:46 PM) AthomIk: i prepare migrate from linux to freebsd (2:03:09 PM) XMen left the room. (2:03:39 PM) AthomIk: great probleme is my kvm pc, but with virtualbox i can create other (2:03:46 PM) AthomIk: and use jail (2:03:57 PM) AthomIk: for smtp and www (2:04:28 PM) gmoore^desk: melflynn what's up with that big WARNING on the freebsd handbook page though? "The following procedure is also incompatible with the default installation settings of FreeBSD 9.X which use the new GPT partition scheme. GEOM will overwrite GPT metadata, causing data loss and possibly an unbootable system." (2:04:36 PM) gmoore^desk: so basically gmirror + GPT = explode? (2:05:31 PM) rubendv [~rubendv@unaffiliated/rubendv] entered the room. (2:05:40 PM) gmoore^desk: maybe i will just say the hell with gmirror and not bother having the disks mirrored. (2:06:04 PM) AthomIk: and i search for smallest freebsd install (2:06:08 PM) AthomIk: how ? (2:06:13 PM) melflynn: as far as I know, that applies to mirroring /whole/ disks, as both have the same concept of "last sector" (2:06:41 PM) melflynn: if you mirror partitions one by one, then it shouldn't affect eachother. (2:07:21 PM) gmoore^desk: ahhhhh and i see, on the blog i was initially following, he mirrors root, usr, and var, not the whole disk (2:07:28 PM) gmoore^desk: i understand why it was broken in the first place now, as well. (2:07:41 PM) gmoore^desk: so yeah ill probably follow his instructions later. first im going to get all my ports updated. (2:07:52 PM) Edgeman left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (2:08:06 PM) clowninasack left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (2:08:10 PM) zerdman left the room. (2:08:53 PM) AthomIk: is openbsd pf like freebsd pf ? (2:09:00 PM) AthomIk: is = . (2:09:01 PM) AthomIk: ? (2:09:02 PM) blakkheim: freebsd pf is openbsd pf (2:09:14 PM) AthomIk: ok good (2:09:27 PM) AthomIk: thk (2:10:03 PM) blakkheim: some syntax might be different though since it's an older version (2:10:35 PM) AthomIk: blakkheim: freebsd pf is a older version of openbsd pf ? (2:10:40 PM) blakkheim: that's right (2:10:48 PM) anti_social: AthomIk: syntax in freebsd is the old syntax, really that and some minor config differences is only differnces (2:10:48 PM) AthomIk: exist other ? (2:10:56 PM) blakkheim: it's the last version before the config syntax changed, so they haven't updated it yet since it might cause problems (2:11:03 PM) blakkheim: though there's a debate about whether to or not (2:11:34 PM) AthomIk: xen port in freebsd is abbandoned ? (2:11:46 PM) anti_social: such as prior in FBSD you needed to recompile the kernel to be able to use altq for traffic shaping (not sure if you still need to or not) but in openbsd you don't need to do that (2:11:50 PM) lattera: freebsd can run as xen domu, but not dom0 (2:12:21 PM) AthomIk: yes i wanna a dom0 or use virtalbox, but it s anorther world (2:12:49 PM) AthomIk: xen 3 can run as dom0 in freebsd, no ? (2:13:07 PM) clowninasack [~clowninas@gateway/tor-sasl/clowninasack] entered the room. (2:15:05 PM) AthomIk: anti_social: is a great sing of french rocker, old...... (2:16:38 PM) AthomIk: ok now i have fresh install of freebd 9.0 (2:16:50 PM) AthomIk: how i can install kde (2:17:02 PM) AthomIk: and xdmcp (2:17:26 PM) AthomIk: have you the best way (2:18:20 PM) AthomIk: htop exist on freebsd ? (2:18:24 PM) AthomIk: incron ? (2:18:33 PM) lawful_evil: iceWM (2:18:36 PM) lawful_evil: forget kde (2:18:44 PM) AthomIk: lawful_evil: ok, (2:18:47 PM) AthomIk: how to (2:18:54 PM) AthomIk: send me the cmd (2:18:57 PM) Edgeman [~edgeman@dyn216-8-142-88.ADSL.mnsi.net] entered the room. (2:18:58 PM) AthomIk: is a test machine (2:19:11 PM) lawful_evil: pkg_add -rv icewm (2:19:17 PM) lawful_evil: then su - youruser (2:19:23 PM) lawful_evil: vi .xinitrc (2:19:29 PM) lawful_evil: or even beter (2:19:43 PM) blakkheim: AthomIk: htop on freebsd requires a lot of shit, try to get by with top (2:19:46 PM) lawful_evil: echo 'exec icewm' > .xinitrc (2:19:54 PM) lawful_evil: make sure you have xorg setup (2:20:03 PM) lawful_evil: meaning hald_enable=yes (2:20:12 PM) lawful_evil: and dbus_enable=yes are in rc.conf and you rebooted (2:20:18 PM) lawful_evil: after pkg_add -rc xorg (2:20:23 PM) lawful_evil: then (2:20:26 PM) lawful_evil: once all that done (2:20:29 PM) blakkheim: -c? (2:20:30 PM) lawful_evil: type startx (2:20:36 PM) AthomIk: ok first is pkg_add -rc xorg (2:20:54 PM) blakkheim: AthomIk: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x-install.html (2:21:10 PM) AthomIk: pkg_add: invalid option -- c (2:21:16 PM) blakkheim: he meant -v i think (2:21:56 PM) AthomIk: pfffff i read all doc 30 years, now help me for this day..... (2:22:04 PM) AthomIk: i am old man..... :D (2:22:25 PM) AthomIk: too much read doc, i think...... (2:22:39 PM) lawful_evil: rv (2:22:53 PM) lawful_evil: then open etc/rc.conf (2:23:04 PM) lawful_evil: copy the eable line for sshd (2:23:07 PM) AthomIk: lawful_evil: cool rv seem work :) (2:23:10 PM) lawful_evil: but repalce sshd with dbus (2:23:14 PM) lawful_evil: and another line with hald (2:23:20 PM) lawful_evil: so they enabled once u reboot (2:23:22 PM) lawful_evil: then (2:23:22 PM) chrisb left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 276 seconds). (2:23:26 PM) lawful_evil: su - youruser (2:23:33 PM) lawful_evil: do the .xinitrc (2:23:38 PM) lawful_evil: and type startx (2:23:51 PM) lawful_evil: yes after pkg_add -rv icewm as well (2:24:03 PM) lawful_evil: then get grey screen wait ferw sec (2:24:06 PM) lawful_evil: see dsdkotp (2:24:15 PM) lawful_evil: wait lil onger and get nice icewm desktop (2:24:22 PM) lawful_evil: hit lil xterm box on bottom left (2:24:26 PM) lawful_evil: and sart using it! (2:24:37 PM) lawful_evil: pkg_add -rv chromium (2:24:39 PM) AthomIk: ok i log all in (2:24:43 PM) lawful_evil: then type chrome to open chrome (2:24:45 PM) AthomIk: i read after (2:24:56 PM) lawful_evil: 1 seetup oxrg and get icewm (2:24:56 PM) AthomIk: thk lawful_evil (2:25:05 PM) lawful_evil: 2 do .xinitrc as youruser (2:25:08 PM) lawful_evil: 3 startx (2:25:15 PM) mah454 left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds). (2:25:32 PM) AthomIk: i use openbsd, but not x in (2:25:38 PM) AthomIk: only x in my linux (2:26:10 PM) Edgeman left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (2:26:28 PM) AthomIk: now search another way, freebsd seem a good way linux/openbsd (2:27:09 PM) lawful_evil: well (2:27:28 PM) lawful_evil: I wouold jsut use one or other (2:27:37 PM) lawful_evil: if I wereu (2:27:41 PM) gmoore^desk: anyone knowledgable with ZFS? i had an 8.0 system with a ZFS raidz array which i had to do some tuning on to get performance to be good and not get any kernel panics. my main tuning was setting kern.minvnodes and kern.maxvnodes, and setting zfs.arc_min and arc_max. should i still have these values set in 9.0 with zpool 28 or should i leave them alone now? (2:27:47 PM) lawful_evil: backup your data somehwhere (2:27:55 PM) lawful_evil: and nuke your box to freebs to try it for few months gmoore gmoore^desk (2:28:17 PM) lawful_evil: gmoore handbook (2:28:19 PM) crest: gmoore^desk: freebsd 9.0/amd64 needs no more tuning for zfs with >4gb ram (2:28:27 PM) lawful_evil: adn arc cache msut be smaller if ur ram liimits (2:28:40 PM) lawful_evil: or lsiten to crest he wiser on this (2:28:46 PM) lawful_evil: im new to freebsd zfs (2:29:04 PM) crest: unless you want to use dedup (add 4gb ram per tb data) or tons of devices (2:29:08 PM) frogs: zfs seems like huge memory hog (2:29:32 PM) lawful_evil: yep (2:29:36 PM) lawful_evil: im not sure why all hype (2:29:41 PM) lawful_evil: over softraid 10 personally (2:29:47 PM) jason1234: frogs, i switched to debian with mdadm. (2:29:51 PM) crest: frogs: yes zfs eats memory for breakfeast, lunch and dinner (2:29:54 PM) lawful_evil: oh jesus debian (2:30:03 PM) lawful_evil: archlinux if linux (2:30:09 PM) jason1234: i'm getting by with ease. of course i'm mroe into archiving for a handful of boxes instead of performance. (2:30:20 PM) crest: lawful_evil: until it explodes during/after an update cycle? (2:30:23 PM) lawful_evil: i love huge boobs (2:30:30 PM) lawful_evil: archlinux rock solid (2:30:32 PM) jason1234: 8x1tb drives with 512mb ram, raid 5. :/ (2:30:32 PM) lawful_evil: never expods (2:30:53 PM) lawful_evil: tahts reedaht n debian n soalris sthing to explode (2:30:58 PM) lawful_evil: during patching or rpm bs (2:31:09 PM) crest: jason1234: increase to 4-8gb ram and zfs ist happy (2:31:23 PM) crest: ram is cheap these days (2:31:30 PM) jason1234: free computers are cheaper (2:31:42 PM) crest: cheaper than descent disks (2:31:51 PM) jason1234: 2.4 with 512, works flawless. (2:32:01 PM) crest: jason1234: not if you have to pay the power bill (2:32:11 PM) anti_social: crest: that sounds like a windows comment, ram is cheap these days so who cares if the software eats tons of it (2:32:53 PM) bankai_: it's not that at all, ZFS needs RAM in order to operate properly. There's no avoiding it (2:33:00 PM) jason1234: if i had a bunch of boxes pulling 720 and 1080, a bunch of torrents, etc. then yeah. but i only have my one laptop. (2:33:07 PM) crest: anti_social: zfs needs/wastes lots of memory. period. it offers a reliable, fast and easy to manage storage in return (2:33:11 PM) anti_social: it is cheap, but why should we just deal with huge memory hogging applictions just because it's so cheap (2:33:19 PM) Edgeman [~edgeman@dyn216-8-142-88.ADSL.mnsi.net] entered the room. (2:33:42 PM) crest: anti_social: the "alternative" is to invest in a good hw raid card (2:34:06 PM) frogs: i use ufs2 (2:34:17 PM) anti_social: crest: ok, I'm not judging it.. just saying I never liked the idea of having software that eats huge amounts of ram needlessly (2:34:33 PM) crest: anti_social: zfs is copy on write by design (2:34:33 PM) jason1234: creast, i was in need of massive storage then blazing speed. i dumped into 7Tb of redudancy, stuffed it in some box someone gave me for free, and it works good. once i get a good mobo, i'll just move cables and restart it as nothing happened. i'm not to worried. (2:34:38 PM) anti_social: I've never actually used zfs so I can't say from experience... usability wise it might be awesome (2:34:41 PM) melflynn: cause of your definition of need (2:35:18 PM) crest: anti_social: this requires zfs to update the whole meta data tree up to the root etc. this would be slower than in place modificatio without massive caching (2:35:52 PM) crest: anti_social: one of the core ideas behind zfs is to never modify live data on disk (2:35:54 PM) jason1234: i was more concerned to spend money to protect my data then move it faster over twisted pair :) once it's secure, then i'll concentrate on making it move faster. (2:36:05 PM) scarcry left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (2:37:26 PM) anti_social: crest: well, sounds interesting enough... I don't have nearly enough ram to use it though from what I've read (2:37:39 PM) anti_social: read in here that is... haven't really researched it much otherwise (2:38:17 PM) crest: a good raid controller is somewhere between $400 and $800. $800 get you >64gb ram to cache your data (2:38:56 PM) lawful_evil: 64g ram on the box right? (2:39:01 PM) lawful_evil: www.prevayler.org (2:39:01 PM) anti_social: the raid card is actually why I use FBSD on my file server over OBSD... native support (2:39:04 PM) Zelest [~zelest@h-155-96.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] entered the room. (2:39:05 PM) lawful_evil: this should be looked into more (2:39:31 PM) Zelest: might be a more vmware specific question.. but is there any reason for me to enable device polling in a virtual machine in vmware esxi? (2:39:34 PM) tscho [~tscho@host-82-135-3-111.static.customer.m-online.net] entered the room. (2:39:41 PM) melflynn: tons of people don't need ZFS, or raid or even reliable disks. But the fact that you can sacrificing memory for data security, is a nice option and a subjective parameter. (2:39:41 PM) anti_social: granted, I hate this damn controller... but I suppose it gets the job done when it isn't completely locking the system up. (2:39:54 PM) crest: zfs implements raid, volume management and filesystem in one package (2:41:00 PM) crest: this allows some great improvments e.g. raid5 and raid6 without write hole (2:41:30 PM) lawful_evil: mogileFS and memcahced are nice, raid 0 the box, then let mogiel copy files around to different boxes, and let memcahced pick up slack for anything requested over n over quickly (2:41:35 PM) lawful_evil: perl thoi yekk (2:41:38 PM) lawful_evil: wish it all in tcl (2:45:54 PM) hever left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 272 seconds). (2:48:06 PM) gusto left the room (quit: Quit: leaving). (2:50:36 PM) agoldson left the room (quit: Quit: agoldson). (2:50:50 PM) Natch| left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 252 seconds). (2:52:09 PM) gmoore^desk: crest so with 8GB of ram i should remove the min/max vnodes and arc min/max and just let it go? (2:52:58 PM) VShell: lawful_evil, call me back when you've actually run a network of more than 3 computers. (2:53:05 PM) crsd: :D (2:55:03 PM) gmoore left the room (quit: Quit: gmoore). (2:55:22 PM) crest: gmoore^desk: freebsd 9 improved the autotuning. don't mess with the defaults unless you know what your're doing. most of this so called tuning guides are for freebsd 7x (2:58:39 PM) Gipsy left the room (quit: Quit: quit). (2:58:58 PM) gmoore^desk: can i comment out things in loader.conf using #? (2:59:05 PM) hever [~hever@rrcs-24-105-133-125.nyc.biz.rr.com] entered the room. (3:00:48 PM) zi: gmoore^desk: i think you will find your answer and more in /boot/defaults/loader.conf (3:01:01 PM) gmoore^desk: ah (3:01:07 PM) gmoore^desk is now known as gmoore (3:01:27 PM) sphenxes left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving). (3:02:22 PM) jhell_ [~89d8547e@unaffiliated/cmdlnkid] entered the room. (3:02:35 PM) dtcrshr left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds). (3:03:17 PM) Zed` [~Zed@sh.savantnet.com] entered the room. (3:05:29 PM) lawful_evil: VShell: lol (3:05:34 PM) lawful_evil: myspace (3:05:42 PM) jhell left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 265 seconds). (3:05:42 PM) jhell_ is now known as jhell (3:05:50 PM) lawful_evil: myspace not small vshell (3:06:00 PM) lawful_evil: lol (3:06:02 PM) blakkheim: i'm pretty sure myspace only has 3 users too (3:06:10 PM) VShell: and you never worked on it, lawful_evil. (3:06:13 PM) lawful_evil: loook I make 6 figs and have 6 fig net worth (3:06:16 PM) lawful_evil: Im 6-6 american (3:06:22 PM) lawful_evil: and I got no kids and live by beach (3:06:33 PM) VShell: can we have this guy kicked again? (3:06:35 PM) lawful_evil: Im an austrain school economics lover who repsects geosim and the singel tax (3:06:39 PM) lawful_evil: and I get hot chix (3:06:42 PM) lawful_evil: so relax (3:06:44 PM) gmoore: then why are you here (3:06:54 PM) lawful_evil: esp the brits who wont amdit englad lsot wtice to germany in ww 1+2 (3:06:58 PM) lawful_evil: jeesh get real (3:07:03 PM) gmoore: real talk: you're overweight and employed at a shitty job with a low income. now get out (3:07:16 PM) archeyDevil [~archeyDev@unaffiliated/archeydevil] entered the room. (3:07:17 PM) lawful_evil: whats wild is the psotgresql benchamrks from dagonflybsd (3:07:23 PM) lawful_evil: show scienticf linux beating freebsd (3:07:30 PM) lawful_evil: and archlinux si beter lnux than centos ro redhat (3:07:31 PM) lawful_evil: so wow (3:07:33 PM) lawful_evil: woo wee (3:07:41 PM) lawful_evil: no I am buff adn 6-06 (3:07:44 PM) lawful_evil: and my job kcisk ass (3:07:45 PM) lawful_evil: 6 figs (3:07:46 PM) lawful_evil: :) (3:07:48 PM) lawful_evil: 0 debt (3:07:56 PM) lawful_evil: 6 figs in stock market net worth (3:07:56 PM) Indian left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (3:07:59 PM) lawful_evil: 154iq (3:08:05 PM) lawful_evil: novellist published (3:08:08 PM) frogs: lawful_evil: freebsd syscalls reported to be much slower than other oses (3:08:09 PM) lawful_evil: published author (3:08:11 PM) lawful_evil: :) (3:08:26 PM) lawful_evil: well postgresql is nice (3:08:32 PM) VShell: oh fuck off. (3:08:39 PM) lawful_evil: id love to see bench amrk fo firebirdDB vs psotgresql (3:08:48 PM) lawful_evil: VShell: be civil now (3:08:49 PM) Zed` left the room (quit: Quit: Drama always seems worse than it is..). (3:08:56 PM) gmoore: no i agree get the fuck out (3:08:56 PM) samu: you make VShell unhappy (3:08:58 PM) samu: go away. (3:09:01 PM) lawful_evil: remember football players are much faster an more fit than soccer palyers (3:09:05 PM) lawful_evil: and more amssive too (3:09:07 PM) frogs: i think the_rat_god is ok (3:09:27 PM) lawful_evil: ;) (3:09:33 PM) You are now known as the_RAT_GOD (3:09:36 PM) the_RAT_GOD: oh yeah!! (3:09:46 PM) the_RAT_GOD: enland is now #7 economy? (3:09:52 PM) the_RAT_GOD: right head of econ powerhouse italy (3:10:08 PM) crsd: there's no such thing as "soccer" (3:10:11 PM) the_RAT_GOD: europe should be copying usa (3:10:15 PM) samu: You know (3:10:16 PM) the_RAT_GOD: usa more succful (3:10:19 PM) crsd: there's only one real football :-) (3:10:20 PM) samu: a few people suggested here (3:10:22 PM) samu: that you should go away. (3:10:26 PM) the_RAT_GOD: we ned no lecurre from our lesser little brothers across the sea (3:10:27 PM) samu: a little dog would have learnt by now. (3:10:30 PM) the_RAT_GOD: none atoll (3:10:37 PM) the_RAT_GOD: the usa is no1 baby (3:10:38 PM) the_RAT_GOD: no 1 (3:10:41 PM) the_RAT_GOD: dont u forget it (3:10:45 PM) the_RAT_GOD: no 1 standard of living (3:10:51 PM) the_RAT_GOD: even with 20mill illegal imigrants (3:10:53 PM) the_RAT_GOD: no1 baby (3:11:07 PM) the_RAT_GOD: none dare oppose the empire!! (3:11:27 PM) MarconM [~MarconM@unaffiliated/marconm] entered the room. (3:11:40 PM) samu: You know what, this is something like masturbation. He will not stop until he will not stop untill he feels relief. (3:11:43 PM) samu: Let's just leave him alone. (3:11:48 PM) MarconM: i has been installed freeebsd, but when i reboot show me the error boot " NO UFS" (3:11:49 PM) bsdwolf: utilize /ignore lawful_evil *pure bliss* (3:12:00 PM) MarconM: how i fix it (3:13:45 PM) melflynn: MarconM: what did you use to install? And is this a computer or VM? (3:14:36 PM) MarconM: melflynn computer (3:14:58 PM) MarconM: i installed before and works but now i dont now what happen (3:15:27 PM) melflynn: Does it still boot ok from the CD? (3:15:46 PM) melflynn: or dvd (3:16:15 PM) MarconM: cd (3:17:00 PM) the_RAT_GOD: nuke israel (3:17:08 PM) the_RAT_GOD: build nuclear pwoer stations (3:17:13 PM) the_RAT_GOD: separate seawater (3:17:18 PM) the_RAT_GOD: and run oxygen engine (3:17:20 PM) AthomIk: usa is good for all humans.... (3:17:23 PM) the_RAT_GOD: or electic car n train (3:17:29 PM) the_RAT_GOD: make middle east irrelevant (3:17:33 PM) the_RAT_GOD: end app governmetn school (3:17:35 PM) AthomIk: usa create pc, internet, and the free world (3:17:38 PM) the_RAT_GOD: usa way is beter (3:17:43 PM) the_RAT_GOD: true dat (3:17:49 PM) the_RAT_GOD: yep (3:18:05 PM) the_RAT_GOD: although we shoulda sided with germany n japan (3:18:09 PM) the_RAT_GOD: that was 1 big error (3:18:10 PM) AthomIk: but usa not create the camenbert, yes, a great problem :D (3:18:15 PM) the_RAT_GOD: histriacally (3:18:27 PM) the_RAT_GOD: why is food so abd in engladn? (3:18:31 PM) the_RAT_GOD: I mean (3:18:37 PM) the_RAT_GOD: your right acrooss sea from france (3:18:42 PM) the_RAT_GOD: #1 culinary place is world (3:18:47 PM) the_RAT_GOD: and short distance from italy (3:18:52 PM) AthomIk: the_RAT_GOD: yes germany is the land of ..... .... and japan too :D (3:18:59 PM) the_RAT_GOD: hek import some thai n chinese great food (3:19:11 PM) the_RAT_GOD: germany land of hot tallwomen with big tits (3:19:15 PM) the_RAT_GOD: not short falt 1s (3:19:18 PM) the_RAT_GOD: falt women (3:19:22 PM) the_RAT_GOD: i loved swedish guy (3:19:29 PM) the_RAT_GOD: said viking ake over coast town kill all ugly women (3:19:32 PM) the_RAT_GOD: n weak men (3:19:33 PM) the_RAT_GOD: enslave rest (3:19:38 PM) the_RAT_GOD: so get hotter women voer time (3:19:40 PM) the_RAT_GOD: lol (3:19:45 PM) melflynn: MarconM: is it a clean install? Was not an upgrade? (3:19:46 PM) the_RAT_GOD: AWSOME (3:19:46 PM) AthomIk: the_RAT_GOD: ok, you must install unbutu i think :D (3:19:56 PM) the_RAT_GOD: well I jsut isntaleld illumian (3:20:11 PM) MarconM: melflynn yes .. its a clean install dualboot (3:20:14 PM) the_RAT_GOD: i got linxu 3.2.7 with archlinux (3:20:15 PM) MarconM: but i did before (3:20:16 PM) the_RAT_GOD: withotu compiing (3:20:19 PM) the_RAT_GOD: and freebsd 9 (3:20:22 PM) AthomIk: the_RAT_GOD: drug is not the really good way :D (3:20:24 PM) the_RAT_GOD: and next is dragonfly 3 (3:20:29 PM) VShell: oh WOULD YOU SHUT UP. I currently have an entirely screen full of utter /nonsense/ from the_RAT_GOD. (3:20:40 PM) the_RAT_GOD: VShell: ge a job (3:21:00 PM) bsdwolf: VShell: its lawfull_evil (clone) I think (3:21:17 PM) frogs: it's gavino (3:21:21 PM) the_RAT_GOD: yep (3:21:23 PM) VShell: bsdwolf, it is. (3:21:31 PM) the_RAT_GOD: in the flesh (3:21:35 PM) bsdwolf: both on /ignore (3:21:37 PM) crsd: I can write such BS only if I'm uber drunk :D (3:21:54 PM) the_RAT_GOD: im drnunk on success (3:21:59 PM) the_RAT_GOD: im polytheistic (3:22:03 PM) the_RAT_GOD: gods i love myself (3:22:10 PM) the_RAT_GOD: never amrry gents (3:22:12 PM) the_RAT_GOD: never do it (3:22:13 PM) crsd: with which hand? (3:22:14 PM) the_RAT_GOD: I wont (3:22:17 PM) the_RAT_GOD: vtoe republican (3:22:21 PM) the_RAT_GOD: vote republican (3:22:24 PM) the_RAT_GOD: i do (3:22:30 PM) anti_social: what an absolutely idiot (3:22:32 PM) the_RAT_GOD: communism doesnt work (3:22:38 PM) the_RAT_GOD: why get outa bed in morning with communism (3:22:48 PM) anti_social: absolute* (3:22:49 PM) the_RAT_GOD: no 154iq (3:22:54 PM) the_RAT_GOD: tech you a lot (3:22:59 PM) the_RAT_GOD: student boy living in mo basement (3:23:02 PM) the_RAT_GOD: get a job (3:23:16 PM) anti_social: get an education (3:23:19 PM) anti_social: :) (3:23:20 PM) the_RAT_GOD: when u get 6 fig net worth 0 debt gime a call (3:23:21 PM) the_RAT_GOD: lol (3:23:23 PM) the_RAT_GOD: yeah (3:23:25 PM) the_RAT_GOD: thats right (3:23:27 PM) the_RAT_GOD: you arent me (3:23:28 PM) the_RAT_GOD: yeah (3:23:30 PM) AthomIk: job is for poor people....... (3:23:30 PM) the_RAT_GOD: yep (3:23:33 PM) the_RAT_GOD: yeah (3:23:34 PM) VShell: the_RAT_GOD, I have no debt. why? because I don't live in America. (3:23:42 PM) the_RAT_GOD: funny I have 0 debt too (3:23:46 PM) the_RAT_GOD: and 6 fig net worth (3:23:50 PM) the_RAT_GOD: funny eh chappy? (3:23:57 PM) frogs: cos nobody will loan you money? (3:24:06 PM) the_RAT_GOD: and i dont live in freezing cold in 10x20 flat (3:24:07 PM) VShell: I have at no point in my 18 years of being alive ever been in debt. (3:24:09 PM) AthomIk: the_RAT_GOD: where are you live ? (3:24:16 PM) samu: Why are you even talking to him? (3:24:17 PM) the_RAT_GOD: los angeles (3:24:19 PM) the_RAT_GOD: CA (3:24:19 PM) Natch| [~natch@178.73.216.31] entered the room. (3:24:29 PM) anti_social: I call bullshit, you have the mentality of someone that flips burgers at McDonalds the_RAT_GOD (3:24:33 PM) AthomIk: the_RAT_GOD: what time have you ? (3:24:36 PM) the_RAT_GOD: you call your mama (3:24:40 PM) the_RAT_GOD: 324pm (3:24:41 PM) anti_social: if even that (3:24:44 PM) the_RAT_GOD: pppft (3:24:45 PM) VShell: AthomIk, the Great and Powerful Capitalist United States of America that can Do No Wrong, obviously. (3:24:54 PM) samu: You guys just turn him on. (3:25:02 PM) the_RAT_GOD: you gusy should look into trend trading (3:25:10 PM) samu: and he keeps typing this shit, making garbage in our logs. why, ffs, why. (3:25:11 PM) the_RAT_GOD: its brillaint strategy for traing stocks (3:25:16 PM) the_RAT_GOD: remember i told u (3:25:19 PM) the_RAT_GOD: trend trading (3:25:25 PM) samu: the_RAT_GOD: no, we shouldn't, and YOU should shut up. (3:25:28 PM) VShell: samu, because the mods here are never around. (3:25:29 PM) the_RAT_GOD: capitalism is awesome (3:25:32 PM) AthomIk: VShell: never forget usa is born with europeen, free europeen (3:25:38 PM) samu: Nobody cares about you, nobody cares about america, nobody cares about the bullshit you're sayinh (3:25:40 PM) the_RAT_GOD: I wish obama chockes o tea n crumpets with brits (3:25:46 PM) the_RAT_GOD: we wwant him gone!! (3:25:55 PM) the_RAT_GOD: europe is less successful than usa (3:25:58 PM) megaTherion: VShell: ignore is the magic word :) (3:25:59 PM) the_RAT_GOD: and should realise (3:26:00 PM) AthomIk: VShell: capitalism is not a usa creation...... (3:26:03 PM) the_RAT_GOD: captialism not communism works (3:26:06 PM) the_RAT_GOD: and copy usa (3:26:11 PM) the_RAT_GOD: we can help u not be failures (3:26:15 PM) AthomIk: just a adaptation (3:26:24 PM) the_RAT_GOD: lower governemtn spedning (3:26:26 PM) the_RAT_GOD: more innovation (3:26:31 PM) samu: VShell: we'll see if anything can be done with that. (3:26:32 PM) the_RAT_GOD: yep (3:26:39 PM) VShell: the_RAT_GOD, Obama is the only candidate who pretends to give a shit about LGBT rights atm. I'm more than happy with him there. (3:26:43 PM) anti_social: is that why, without communist china loaning the US money they would be completely broke? (3:26:49 PM) the_RAT_GOD: obama is a fool i agree (3:26:58 PM) anti_social: amongst many other countries we owe shit tons of money to (3:26:58 PM) the_RAT_GOD: usa trades with chian yes (3:27:11 PM) the_RAT_GOD: usa should cut gov spending 50% (3:27:14 PM) the_RAT_GOD: for starters (3:27:19 PM) VShell: the_RAT_GOD, the USA is in rather heavy debt to China. (3:27:22 PM) the_RAT_GOD: end all pensions and governmetn gruip school (3:27:29 PM) VShell: shouldn't China be bankrupt, according to you? (3:27:36 PM) the_RAT_GOD: well china purchases tbills (3:27:36 PM) melflynn left the room (quit: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.1/20120208060813]). (3:27:39 PM) VShell: instead it's growing :) (3:27:42 PM) the_RAT_GOD: no (3:27:44 PM) dubellz: the_RAT_GOD: could you possibly be more civil in here (3:27:51 PM) the_RAT_GOD: chian has adopted many capitalist things england hasnt (3:27:56 PM) the_RAT_GOD: thats whats funny (3:28:04 PM) the_RAT_GOD: china experimetning with very freedom england denies (3:28:09 PM) the_RAT_GOD: with its silly social theories (3:28:17 PM) the_RAT_GOD: keyens reall was a bastard (3:28:30 PM) the_RAT_GOD: england has a lot to answer for ientellectually (3:28:33 PM) the_RAT_GOD: from keyens (3:28:34 PM) VShell: England is actually leaning more towards US-style capitalism for some reason I can't fathom. (3:28:37 PM) the_RAT_GOD: that bastrd (3:28:44 PM) the_RAT_GOD: becaus it works (3:28:46 PM) VShell: or at least London is. (3:28:51 PM) the_RAT_GOD: eveyroen richer when gov spends less (3:28:52 PM) anti_social: one thing is for sure, the_RAT_GOD makes me completely aware of the US educational system failure (3:28:52 PM) const: please take this to #not-##freebsd tyvm (3:28:54 PM) VShell: nah, because a bunch of banks want it. (3:28:58 PM) the_RAT_GOD: I ont get how anyone have any other idea (3:29:02 PM) the_RAT_GOD: history clearly shows (3:29:02 PM) VShell: anti_social, <3 (3:29:03 PM) the_RAT_GOD: ah well (3:29:19 PM) the_RAT_GOD: avg eprson richer under capitalism its true (3:29:22 PM) the_RAT_GOD: avg guy rich (3:29:24 PM) the_RAT_GOD: car (3:29:26 PM) the_RAT_GOD: washer (3:29:27 PM) the_RAT_GOD: house (3:29:29 PM) AthomIk: humm is the freebsd way....... (3:29:37 PM) the_RAT_GOD: freebs is boring (3:29:37 PM) AthomIk: gay land for all..... (3:29:42 PM) the_RAT_GOD: hadnbook too good (3:29:47 PM) the_RAT_GOD: you need me to fill the airtime (3:29:49 PM) AthomIk: humm i return on microsoft os :D (3:30:13 PM) Zed` [~Zed@sh.savantnet.com] entered the room. (3:30:31 PM) VShell: crees, or one of the other mods, can we get the_RAT_GOD banned or quieted for spamming? (3:30:44 PM) landonf [~landonf@unaffiliated/landonf] entered the room. (3:30:56 PM) anti_social: good call (3:31:03 PM) samu: VShell: we actually can't. (3:31:13 PM) VShell: samu, I've noticed. (3:31:14 PM) anti_social: *sighs* (3:31:17 PM) samu: We can, however, do other cool stuff. (3:31:49 PM) AthomIk: hummm freebsd user cannot control irc..... (3:31:59 PM) AthomIk: was is das ? (3:32:41 PM) vwbusguy left the room (quit: Read error: Operation timed out). (3:33:33 PM) scarcry [~scarcry@trinity.lordsith.net] entered the room. (3:33:51 PM) AthomIk: strange irc is here.... (3:35:19 PM) samu: ]:-> (3:35:36 PM) anigma left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 276 seconds). (3:36:49 PM) the_RAT_GOD: heh (3:37:10 PM) The account has disconnected and you are no longer in this chat. You will be automatically rejoined in the chat when the account reconnects. (3:37:49 PM) The topic for ##freebsd is: Welcome to ##FreeBSD || Last Security Advisory 2011-12-23 http://goo.gl/kPDvM || FreeBSD: We're friendlier here || RTFM: http://freebsd.org/handbook || off topic #not-##FreeBSD || For advocacy join #freebsd-advocacy (3:38:10 PM) lawful_evil: i dont get why people lvoe communism, and direct comparison of tools. (3:38:20 PM) You are now known as RATGOD (3:38:23 PM) RATGOD: I dont (3:38:52 PM) hever left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 252 seconds). (3:39:31 PM) RATGOD: I mean the english really teach kids they beat germany in ww1+2 (3:39:40 PM) RATGOD: I mean germany kicked thier aSS (3:39:45 PM) RATGOD: usa jumped in and saved them (3:39:47 PM) samu: go away. (3:39:51 PM) RATGOD: if left alone germany run europe (3:39:52 PM) VShell: I see that the American political system has forced you to believe there are only 2 possible options to any decision you can make. (3:39:54 PM) RATGOD: self denial (3:40:09 PM) RATGOD: see ego is experesed in economics (3:40:21 PM) RATGOD: u cant understand that capitalism and non control from top works (3:43:28 PM) RATGOD: that bekham is not that good looking (3:43:34 PM) RATGOD: he jsut skinny spanker (3:43:39 PM) RATGOD: and soccer is a fag sport (3:43:44 PM) RATGOD: now rugby (3:43:47 PM) RATGOD: those guys are more legit (3:43:56 PM) RATGOD: soccer shoudl be retired (3:44:02 PM) RATGOD: and rugby become what socer is now (3:44:07 PM) RATGOD: thats mroe a real sport (3:44:29 PM) RATGOD: ask the american (3:44:32 PM) RATGOD: cmon euros (3:44:36 PM) RATGOD: ask a american anything (3:44:44 PM) The account has disconnected and you are no longer in this chat. You will be automatically rejoined in the chat when the account reconnects.

What It Feels Like To Be A Libertarian (posted January 2009)

What It Feels Like To Be A Libertarian (posted January 2009) Political analysts frequently consider what it means to be a libertarian. In fact, in 1997, Charles Murray published a short book entitled "What It Means to Be a Libertarian" that does an excellent job of presenting the core principles of libertarian political philosophy. But almost no one ever discusses what it feels like to be a libertarian. How does it actually feel to be someone who holds the principles described in Murray’s book? I’ll tell you. It feels bad. Being a libertarian means living with an almost unendurable level of frustration. It means being subject to unending scorn and derision despite being inevitably proven correct by events. How does it feel to be a libertarian? Imagine what the internal life of Cassandra must have been and you will have a pretty good idea. Imagine spending two decades warning that government policy is leading to a major economic collapse, and then, when the collapse comes, watching the world conclude that markets do not work. Imagine continually explaining that markets function because they have a built in corrective mechanism; that periodic contractions are necessary to weed out unproductive ventures; that continually loosening credit to avoid such corrections just puts off the day of reckoning and inevitably leads to a larger recession; that this is precisely what the government did during the 1920's that led to the great depression; and then, when the recession hits, seeing it offered as proof of the failure of laissez-faire capitalism. Imagine spending years decrying federal intervention in the home mortgage market; pointing out the dangers associated with legislation such as the Community Reinvestment Act that forces lenders to make more risky loans than they otherwise would; testifying before Congress on the lack of oversight and inevitable insolvency of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to legislators who angrily respond either that one is "exaggerat[ing] a threat of safety and soundness . . . which I do not see" (Barney Frank) or "[I]f it ain’t broke, why do you want to fix it? Have the GSEs [government-sponsored enterprises] ever missed their housing goals" (Maxine Waters) or "[T]he problem that we have and that we are faced with is maybe some individuals who wanted to do away with GSEs in the first place" (Gregory Meeks) or that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are "one of the great success stories of all time" (Christopher Dodd); and arguing that the moral hazard created by the implicit federal backing of such privately-owned government-sponsored enterprises is likely to set off a wave of unjustifiably risky investments, and then, when the housing market implodes under the weight of bad loans, watching the collapse get blamed on the greed and rapaciousness of "Wall Street." I remember attending a lecture at Georgetown in the mid-1990s given by a member of the libertarian Cato Institute in which he predicted that, unless changed, government policy would trigger an economic crisis by 2006. That prediction was obviously ideologically-motivated alarmism. After all, the crisis did not occur until 2008. Libertarians spend their lives accurately predicting the future effects of government policy. Their predictions are accurate because they are derived from Hayek’s insights into the limitations of human knowledge, from the recognition that the people who comprise the government respond to incentives just like anyone else and are not magically transformed to selfless agents of the good merely by accepting government employment, from the awareness that for government to provide a benefit to some, it must first take it from others, and from the knowledge that politicians cannot repeal the laws of economics. For the same reason, their predictions are usually negative and utterly inconsistent with the utopian wishful-thinking that lies at the heart of virtually all contemporary political advocacy. And because no one likes to hear that he cannot have his cake and eat it too or be told that his good intentions cannot be translated into reality either by waving a magic wand or by passing legislation, these predictions are greeted not merely with disbelief, but with derision. It is human nature to want to shoot the messenger bearing unwelcome tidings. And so, for the sin of continually pointing out that the emperor has no clothes, libertarians are attacked as heartless bastards devoid of compassion for the less fortunate, despicable flacks for the rich or for business interests, unthinking dogmatists who place blind faith in the free market, or, at best, members of the lunatic fringe. Cassandra’s curse was to always tell the truth about the future, but never be believed. If you add to that curse that she would be ridiculed, derided, and shunned for making her predictions, you have a pretty fair approximation of what it feels like to be a libertarian. If you’d like a taste of what it feels like to be a libertarian, try telling people that the incoming Obama Administration is advocating precisely those aspects of FDR’s New Deal that prolonged the great depression for a decade; that propping up failed and failing ventures with government money in order to save jobs in the present merely shifts resources from relatively more to relatively less productive uses, impedes the corrective process, undermines the economic growth necessary for recovery, and increases unemployment in the long term; and that any "economic" stimulus package will inexorably be made to serve political rather than economic ends, and see what kind of reaction you get. And trust me, it won’t feel any better five or ten years from now when everything you have just said has been proven true and Obama, like FDR, is nonetheless revered as the savior of the country.