[Tcl and Tk | for eggdrop related questions, please go to #eggtcl on the EFNet irc network (irc.efnet.org:6667) | NB: ijchain is a bot bridging a jabber chat] [20:49] == le_gavino [6c0ddab8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.13.218.184] has joined #tcl [20:49] -ChanServ- [#tcl] This channel is bridged to a Jabber chat via ijchain. ijchain is a bot. Set your IRC client for UTF-8 encoding in this channel. [20:49]ok [20:49] got some teknical questions about tcl [20:50] surrounding 16 cpu boxes and tcl apps [20:51] <@ijchain> le_gavino, wait a sec, I just have to hide you again. [20:51] <@ijchain> ahhhh, better. [20:51] fuking a colin [20:51] cmon [20:52] gavino, you would put less load on all of our chat clients if you just kept the same nick [20:52] <@ijchain> Yeah. I might get energetic and start banning gavino. [20:53] <@ijchain> repeated violation of agreement not to change nicks, general trollishness, complete irredeemability, republicanism. [20:53] == le_gavino has changed nick to gavino [20:53] -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify . [20:53] come on colin [20:53] dont be so ahrsh [20:54] don't drink and IRC [20:55] aaye [20:55] at least you shouldn't ;) [20:55] but I am very curious how to get a tcl app to use more than 1 cpu [20:55] I see the thread package is that the onyl way? [20:56] there is no even driven way? [21:00] == nvrpunk [~tlnelson@97.97.245.29] has joined #tcl [21:05] why are threads not good enough? [21:07] I don't know, I am vry ignorant. [21:08] So tcl-ers just use threads...when they want to grow a program that might be highly laoded and 100% cpu. [21:08] one poster on google groups said threads are easy to use [21:09] are you actually writing a program now? [21:09] no [21:09] I am learning tcl. [21:10] oh, ok [21:10] I work as a syadmin and have my own biz. [21:10] I enjoy using tcl and now use it almost exclusively and hav eleft bash beind. [21:10] work is forcing me to learn perl, which I find not as nice as tcl sofar. [21:11] you'll like some things, less like others [21:11] for webb apps I guess I could jsut exploit psotgresql and aolserver [21:11] the tutorial I have gone through up to dicts [21:11] and I find arrays a little harder to use that I had expected [21:17] jsut wodnering from more experienced tclers: are 16 core boxes a problem for tcl to exploit? [21:18] is thread package easy? [21:19] and for web is the problem already solved by postgresQL and aolserver naviserver or websh wtc [21:19] etc [21:19] <@ijchain> Sure, 2 drinks and it's off to bed. [21:19] so problems all solved [21:19] <@ijchain> colin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWQryPBeieo [21:19] I actually had the perl enthusiast guy at work ask me who uses aolerver ? [21:19] as if perl way better for web apps [21:20] <@ijchain> Oh, it's probably NSFW, for those of you at W. [21:21] == nvrpunk [~tlnelson@97.97.245.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] [21:25] i wish I could jsut discuss these things with tclsers with more experience. [21:26] I hate being ignored. [21:26] <@ijchain> What do you want to know? [21:26] <@ijchain> The answer is: Tcl, threaded or not, has no concept of how many cores the box has. [21:27] == tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.45.49] has quit [Quit: leaving] [21:27] <@ijchain> On starting on the road to not being ignored: Type properly. [21:27] == awb [~awb@adsl-99-102-129-62.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: awb] [21:31] <@ijchain> Speaking of perl, it's hard to beat things like $ perl -pie 's/this/that/' filename [21:35] sed [21:36] ok so 16 core boxes can easily be exploited using tcl. [21:36] who said that? [21:37] why do you keep asking the same questions? [21:38] maybe you should consider using a real irc client which keeps logfiles of your conversations so you can read them again whenever you forget the answers, which would be monthly [21:40] thommey: I can't agree with your assertion. [21:43] you've been asking the multi-core tcl thing at least 20 times [21:44] and what would you say is the answer? [21:44] <@ijchain> The answer is: Tcl, threaded or not, has no concept of how many cores the box has. [21:44] exactly [21:44] <@ijchain> No, no, wait ..... [21:44] ok let me step back, what would you say is the question I asked? [21:44] <@ijchain> As many as Aolserver can. [21:45] <@ijchain> "Can 16 core boxes can easily be exploited using tcl?" [21:45] and to that you answer [21:45] you write programs appropriate for your tasks, if you do have a use-case where you need to spread out computationally expensive tasks (!!!) across multiple kernel threads, you can use the Tcl thread package (you most likely have equivalents in every programming language - you MUST design the program for that, it doesn't automagically happen) [21:45] "Tcl has no concept of how many cpu the box has, threded or no" [21:45] <@ijchain> Wait ... is that "16-core boxes" or "16 core-boxes" ? [21:45] ok [21:45] == jon8 [Rush@unaffiliated/jon8] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] [21:45] == River_Rat [~me@gentoo/contributor/riverrat] has joined #tcl [21:46] maybe you dont speak english as first language? [21:46] "don't" [21:46] <@ijchain> I didn't write "threded" [21:46] irc is not harvard englsih punctuation class [21:47] <@ijchain> We are all mature adults, quite capable of communicating effectively by proper usage of language. [21:47] <@ijchain> No one feels like trying to decode what you're trying to say. [21:47] English. [21:48] <@ijchain> "for webb apps I guess I could jsut exploit psotgresql and aolserver" [21:48] == RiverRat [~me@gentoo/contributor/riverrat] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] [21:48] <@ijchain> What's a "webb app"? What's "psotgresql" ? [21:48] an exploit is a daring adventure by one definition [21:48] well say one had a dell server with 16 cpu [21:48] <@ijchain> What is "threded" [21:48] he did mention he likes to come here and ask questions when he's drunk, so I'm assuming - in his favor - that he is [21:48] and one wanted to solve problems using tcl [21:48] oen would not want to waste 15 cpu would one? [21:49] I mean I am a systems engineer by trade. [21:49] Performance matters. [21:49] <@ijchain> Who'se oen? The guy that played Obi-Wan? [21:49] you do sound like a manager, not a programer, not even a system administrator [21:49] <@ijchain> Who's [21:49] That a name I have not heard in a long.....long time. [21:49] Befoer the dark times, before the empire!! [21:51] So Stu how would you use tcl to make sure that you were not wasting 15 of those cpu??? [21:51] thonmney how would you? [21:51] spawn kernel threads that loop endlessly to make you happy [21:51] 100% cpu usage on all cores, win-win [21:51] <@ijchain> Isn't the OS responsible for such things? [21:52] Well say someone was guna choose tcl or python to run thier new 50million dolar porn site. [21:52] and your answer would sway them one way or the other [21:52] please don't come here when you're drunk [21:52] <@ijchain> There is nothing in Tcl that can be used to make sure it runs on once cpu or another. [21:52] and your job was on the line and your one chance to get 4mmillion is stock options if the deal gets signed. [21:52] <@ijchain> How do you exploit 16 cores with python? [21:52] big money [21:52] no wammies [21:52] well one answer is stackless python [21:53] we're programmers, we tell them the truth, which is what stu said three times already [21:53] == jon8 [Rush@unaffiliated/jon8] has joined #tcl [21:54] <@ijchain> "Stackless python does not make use of any kind of multi-core environment it runs on. This is a common misconception about Stackless, as it allows the programmer to take advantage of thread-based programming. For many people these two are closely intertwined, but are, in fact two seperate things." [21:54] http://www.nagare.org/trac/wiki/NagareDescription [21:54] here is something in stackles [21:55] I want the truth! [21:55] good man!! [21:55] I am not drunk thommey or I would have insulted you already. [21:56] the truth is that you still have a lot to learn, you're not asking intelligent questions [21:56] What if my questions answer could make you 4million? [21:58] you gota understand when business people or people evaluating tcl leave conversations such as this they just think "I couldn't get a straight answer" [21:58] == superlinux-hp [~oracle@141.105.82.4] has joined #tcl [21:58] == superlinux-hp [~oracle@141.105.82.4] has quit [Changing host] [21:58] == superlinux-hp [~oracle@unaffiliated/superlinux] has joined #tcl [21:59] you could be poorer because you can't say oen way or another or simply that you don't know if thats the case [21:59] == herdingcat [huli@nat/redhat/x-bmgqjnrumqbjlqed] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] [22:00] I gather using aolserver and postgresql is the solution. [22:00] or threads. [22:00] I guess [22:00] although howto learn to use the threads pacakge is another mystery [22:00] hmmm [22:00] * ijchain jenglish ... [22:00] you didn't state a real problem, there's no universal solution [22:00] * ijchain jenglish ah, what the hell. [22:01] <@ijchain> Just because you have threads doesn't mean you can use multiple cores. [22:01] <@ijchain> Gavino: yes, to explote 16 cores with Tcl you must use AOLServer. [22:01] :) [22:01] <@ijchain> and psotgresQl! [22:01] <@ijchain> PostgresQL is optional, but recommended if you wanna really exploit those cores. [22:01] how about firebird DB? [22:01] <@ijchain> Other things that you can use are Common Lisp. [22:01] throw them all in [22:01] <@ijchain> Yeah! Hit 'em hard! [22:02] <@ijchain> Give those cores a good what-for! [22:02] buy the best hardware you can get, throwing hardware and money at problems always works [22:02] <@ijchain> No, you cannot use firebird DB. [22:02] an ibm mainframe would do [22:02] <@ijchain> Or WATFOR [22:02] so who would you write something like mogileFS in tcl? [22:02] something that would use 16 cpu? [22:02] make that 64 [22:02] <@ijchain> You cannot write something like mogileFS in tcl. [22:02] <@ijchain> For that you need to use Forth. [22:02] http://danga.com/mogilefs/ and replace all costly SANS [22:03] with commodity raid 0 jbods [22:03] <@ijchain> And if you use Forth, you can go up to 32 CPUs to exploit those cores. But no higher. [22:03] jenglish sarcasm is th eleast intelligent form of humor [22:04] ;) [22:04] <@ijchain> I hope that answers your questions. [22:04] nop [22:04] <@ijchain> Actually, I belive it's puns that are considered the lowest form of humour. [22:04] and if your network connection seems to be too slow, you can always buy a "KillerNIC" from bigfoot, which has its own cpu! [22:05] * ijchain stu 's getting gavino typing disease! It's infectious! Rnu! [22:05] lol [22:05] Guys I do like tcl. [22:05] <@ijchain> Do they? [22:05] == _jdpage [~jdpage@unaffiliated/jdpage] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] [22:05] And despite your being annoyed with me I do respect that you work on tcl. [22:05] <@ijchain> That's a bit personal, I think. [22:06] "you're" [22:06] you're expands to you are does it not? [22:06] yes [22:06] don't make me lawyer you thomney [22:06] lol [22:06] * ijchain stu doesn't want to know what else the guys gavino does like. [22:07] * ijchain stu ... like "How many cores do the guys you do do?" [22:07] stu are you into guys? [22:07] <@ijchain> No, you just said that you do guys. [22:07] <@ijchain> And they like Tcl. [22:07] not really [22:08] maybe you misunderstood [22:08] <@ijchain> "Guys I do like tcl." [22:08] yes [22:08] stu: ymmd :) [22:08] that what I said [22:08] I love lawyering [22:08] <@ijchain> Seems pretty clear to me: The guys that you do, they like Tcl. [22:08] nah thats your faulty reading of it [22:09] your faulty reading may explain why my simple questions are so hard for you [22:09] <@ijchain> Had you said: "Guys, I do like tcl." [22:09] <@ijchain> That would be different. [22:09] lol [22:09] would have been different [22:09] <@ijchain> I understand now. Many of your male lovers like Tcl. [22:09] alas I wish I was gay [22:10] <@ijchain> Understandable - Tcl is a good language - for everyone! We don't discriminate. [22:10] I am big 6-6 blue eyed guy and get ltos fo women here in souther california near the beach, esp latinas love me [22:10] == _jdpage [~jdpage@unaffiliated/jdpage] has joined #tcl [22:10] I am a total stud [22:10] <@ijchain> Even against gnu people. [22:10] and since I am rich [22:10] life is good [22:10] you gota realise [22:10] I have 154 iq [22:10] I have 0 insecurities about brains or brawn [22:10] <@ijchain> Yes, it's painfully obvious. [22:11] or sex really [22:11] I think some shemale look great when they look liek pam anderson [22:11] Its amazing what the surgery can do [22:11] <@ijchain> Well, you're also an ass who's hated by a large part of a large part of the programming communities on the Internet. [22:11] oh thats not true [22:11] you know its not [22:11] <@ijchain> Oh, I belive google will bear me out. [22:12] google is a pos [22:12] look up santorum [22:12] no amnners [22:12] manners [22:12] googel sucks ass [22:12] in fact as soon as I find another web interface to newgroups [22:12] I will never ever google again [22:12] I wish the whole company would die [22:12] <@ijchain> Haha - gavino == the santorum of the 'net [22:13] hardly [22:13] <@ijchain> Interpret that any way you like. [22:13] more like the hans solo [22:13] james bond [22:13] I kinda feel myself akin to paul graham who didnt really mind what others were doing. [22:13] and had great success [22:13] your company will defeat google, I'm sure [22:14] why would I make a search engine? [22:14] no no [22:14] I am more interested in making things like a decent job site [22:14] a beter craigslsit [22:14] a pet adoption site [22:14] I'd adopt you [22:14] perhaps cheap storage site [22:15] a site where people could learn 4 html tags and use them for blogging with uplaoded pics [22:15] instead of complex web interfaces [22:15] tons fo possibilities [22:15] thommey: do you own your own websites? can I see a few? [22:15] are they websh? [22:15] == herdingcat [huli@nat/redhat/x-ygargxpeqnqtllmi] has joined #tcl [22:15] I don't own my own website, no [22:16] any tcl modules that write svg files? [22:16] do you? [22:16] well I have some blogs [22:16] not really owned no [22:16] so you dont have your won startup using tcl to make money? [22:17] how about you stu? [22:17] making any cash? jenglish? [22:17] leme see some live sites im curioisos [22:17] wgbh.org [22:17] show me the money! [22:17] <@ijchain> jim: http://wiki.tcl.tk/2893 [22:18] thanks :) I'll look at that now [22:18] butfirst... [22:18] I apologize for feeding the troll, good night [22:18] <@ijchain> gavino, yes there is one web site I did. [22:18] <@ijchain> thommey, so'k, happens to the best of us. [22:18]